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Martin L. Shoemaker
(@martin-l-shoemaker)
Posts: 1950
Platinum Plus Moderator
Topic starter
 

To investigators of this sort recurring similarities (such as this matter of the heart) seem specially important. So much so that students of folk-lore are apt to get off their own proper track, or to express themselves in a misleading ‘shorthand’: misleading in particular, if it gets out of their monographs into books about literature. They are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are ‘the same stories’. We read that Beowulf ‘is only a version of Dat Erdmänneken’; that ‘The Black Bull of Norroway is Beauty and the Beast’, or ‘is the same story as Eros and Psyche’; that the Norse Mastermaid (or the Gaelic Battle of the Birds1 and its many congeners and variants) is ‘the same story as the Greek tale of Jason and Medea’.

“Statements of that kind may express (in undue abbreviation) some element of truth; but they are not true in a fairy-story sense, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count.”

—J.R.R. Tolkien, "On Fairy Stories"

http://nineandsixtyways.com/
Tools, Not Rules.
Martin L. Shoemaker
3rd Place Q1 V31
"Today I Am Paul", WSFA Small Press Award 2015, Nebula nomination 2015
Today I Am Carey from Baen
The Last Dance (#1 science fiction eBook on Amazon, October 2019) and The Last Campaign from 47North

 
Posted : February 5, 2022 8:49 pm
Martin L. Shoemaker
(@martin-l-shoemaker)
Posts: 1950
Platinum Plus Moderator
Topic starter
 

"THERE IS A GREAT VALUE TO THE CAMPBELLIAN BREAKDOWN, SPECIFICALLY CONCERNING  THE FORMATIVE NATURE OF CULTURE AND WHY WE VALUE/TELL THESE STORIES, BUT IT IS ACTUALLY THE FURTHEST THING AWAY FROM A HOW-TO GUIDE. WHOEVER ARE THE FOLKS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ORAL TRADITIONS BEHIND STUFF BEOWULF AND GILGAMESH, THEY WEREN’T SITTING DOWN SAYING “OKAY, OKAY, NOW HE HAS TO REFUSE THE CALL AND THEN BY TABLET 2 THE NEXT BEAT SHOULD…” GAAAAH. SMASHY! WHAT’S SO INTERESTING ABOUT THE HERO’S JOURNEY IS THE WAY THESE THEMES AND DYNAMICS SEEPED NATURALLY OUT OF THESE DIFFERENT STORIES, NOT THAT EVERYONE FELT OBLIGATED OR WAS PURPOSELY TRYING TO DO IT.  THE HERO’S JOURNEY SECRETLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH GOOD STORY STRUCTURE! JUST THEMATIC CONTENT!

"IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT HULK SO DESPERATELY WANTS TO CONVEY TO ALL OF YOU IN THIS BLOG IT IS THAT THERE IS A STARK DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LANGUAGE USED IN THE BROAD STROKES OF CATEGORIZATION AND THE LANGUAGE WE SHOULD USE FOR PRACTICAL APPLICATION.

"IT’S LIKE THE MYTH OF 3 ACT STRUCTURE VS. HULK’S PREFERRED METHOD OF FLOW STRUCTURE (MULTI-ACT WORKING ON CHARACTER/RELATIONSHIP CENTRIC ARENAS THAT ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE). OR POST-MODERNISM VS. THE PRAGMATISM OF CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS. OR ACTION’S “COOL” DESIGNATION VS. THE POWER VISUAL CAUSE + EFFECT STORYTELLING. IN A STRANGE WAY THESE ARE ALL THE SAME ONGOING PROBLEM OF BAD LANGUAGE. (2) THE WAY WE BREAK THINGS DOWN AND DESCRIBE THEM ARE NOT NECESSARILY HELPFUL TO UNDERSTANDING HOW TO CONSTRUCT THEM. YET WE CONSTANTLY MISTAKE THESE MODELS OF DESCRIPTION FOR “HOW TO”S AND THUS WE KEEP RUNNING INTO THE SAME BASIC STORYTELLING PROBLEMS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

"WE HAVE TO REFORM AND BROADEN OUR MODELS. WE HAVE TO REVISE OUR LANGUAGE. TO PUT HULK’S ‘CATEGORIZATION VS. PRACTICAL APPLICATION” ARGUMENT INTO METAPHOR: KNOWING THAT A HOUSE IS MADE FROM WOOD WITH PLASTERED WALLS AND A ROOF DOES NOT ALLOW ONE TO SIMPLY BUILD A HOUSE, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO LITERALLY “BUILD” AND SHAPE THOSE THINGS, NOT JUST KNOW THAT THEY EXIST AND WHERE THEY SHOULD MORE OR LESS GO… WAIT THAT METAPHOR WAS TERRIBLE… HULK CAN DO BETTER… MAYBE… HULK’S TIRED… UM… FINE, THAT’LL DO HULK. THAT’LL DO."

--FILM CRITIC HULK, HULK EXPLAINS WHY WE SHOULD STOP IT WITH THE HERO JOURNEY SHIT – FILM CRIT HULK! HULK BLOG! (wordpress.com)

(All caps in the original.)

http://nineandsixtyways.com/
Tools, Not Rules.
Martin L. Shoemaker
3rd Place Q1 V31
"Today I Am Paul", WSFA Small Press Award 2015, Nebula nomination 2015
Today I Am Carey from Baen
The Last Dance (#1 science fiction eBook on Amazon, October 2019) and The Last Campaign from 47North

 
Posted : February 6, 2022 6:39 am
Disgruntled Peony
(@disgruntledpeony)
Posts: 1283
Platinum Member
 

Meant to mention it earlier, but: I absolutely love both of these quotes. laughing  

If you are in difficulties with a book, try the element of surprise: attack it at an hour when it isn't expecting it. ~ H.G. Wells
If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain
R, SF, SHM, SHM, SHM, F, R, HM, SHM, R, HM, R, F, SHM, SHM, SHM, SF, SHM, 1st Place (Q2 V38)
Ticknor Tales
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4th and Starlight: e-book | paperback

 
Posted : February 14, 2022 12:09 pm
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