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Influenced by vs. too close for comfort

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(@yoyo123)
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So where is the line? Obviously people who read a lot are influenced by what they read. And beginning writers (consciously or not) try on styles of various writers they admire, write fan fiction, put new twists on old ideas, etc. Obviously no one should be using fanfic or revamped versions of someone else’s work outside of personal writing exercises, but when you try on someone else’s style or unique storytelling method (even if your plot/genre are unrelated), when does it become too close for comfort?

I recently binned a story after realizing my super creative storytelling method was pretty similar to something I’d read a while ago. Whoops.

Aaand, go!

 
Posted : January 5, 2021 2:17 am
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
Posts: 957
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Neil Gaiman says in his master class that imitating the greats is a wonderful way to begin. Most/many writers do that - and why wouldn't we? We start writing because we love to read, and we want to write the kind of thing we have loved reading. Of course we imitate the writers we admire. Plagiarism comes when you're copying the content, not the style. The standard advice is to keep writing, get your ~million words down, to find your own voice out of the collision of the writers and influences that make you unique. FanFic is a great training ground for dialogue, setting, character, structure. There's nothing wrong with imitation as a step toward our own original voice.

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Posted : January 5, 2021 3:09 am
(@reuben)
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So where is the line? Obviously people who read a lot are influenced by what they read. And beginning writers (consciously or not) try on styles of various writers they admire, write fan fiction, put new twists on old ideas, etc. Obviously no one should be using fanfic or revamped versions of someone else’s work outside of personal writing exercises, but when you try on someone else’s style or unique storytelling method (even if your plot/genre are unrelated), when does it become too close for comfort?

I recently binned a story after realizing my super creative storytelling method was pretty similar to something I’d read a while ago. Whoops.

Aaand, go!

I think the short answer is when you use specific examples as opposed to the general style. Like an author has the narrator make a certain joke about a teacher, and you copy it, consciously or subconsciously to fit your needs. (Yes, it happened to me.) Make up your own jokes.

On a related note, I recently critiqued someone's story which looked pretty much exactly like The Old Man and The Sea with a bit of a futuristic feel. I mean, there was the old man, fighting with a big fish, which he eventually got, but then lost in the end.

I told the author, "I think there are copyright issues here."

He said that he was simply inspired by The Old Man and The Sea, but that Hemmingway didn't own fishing stories, and this was a different story.

Whoever was right, I think that's too close for comfort. Others are welcome to disagree, but if anything other than style mirrors a particular author--be it plot, be it a small specific detail--I think that's "past the line".

Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm ~ Winston Churchill
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Posted : January 5, 2021 5:38 pm
Alex Harford
(@alexh)
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I haven't read them for many years but remember Steven Pressfield has three good articles on this topic, Steal Without Shame. Here's the first: https://stevenpressfield.com/2014/11/st ... out-shame/

On two occasions I've read a story that's sparked an idea that's led to a story of my own. I hate plagiarism by the way. If I share someone else's joke online, for example, I credit the comedian/person I heard it from.

My best WotF result came from a story inspired by a favourite flash fiction from another author. I'd say the setup and climax are very similar but also very different. If someone read my story and the other story alongside each other, I'm not sure they'd notice the similarity. I'd like to try this out one day. There is a vast difference in word count between the two stories.

The other story, I have out for submission, and two people who've read a few of my stories said it's their favourite. It was inspired by the sentiment of another flash fiction I love. If it gets published, I'll be interested to see if people guess which story it was inspired by. There is one scene in the story that has similarities to its inspiration.

So based on those two stories, using the inspiration I got from professionally-published stories has helped me, and it's something I recommend trying.

My current WotF entry, on the other hand, wasn't inspired by anything in particular I'm aware of. Yet a couple of people commented it reminded them of famous works I hadn't seen/read.

Sometimes inspirations are obvious and sometimes they aren't. When I played in a band, we were regularly compared to bands we'd never heard of, never mind listened to. One of our songs was reviewed as a "blatant Pixies rip-off" (it was actually a positive review), and none of us listened to Pixies back then. I know Fountains of Wayne purposely made songs to be like pastiches of bands they liked -- in that sense, Stacy's Mom, their most famous song, is a rip-off of The Cars. Yet whoever they copied, they always sounded like Fountains of Wayne. They put their own unique spin on what influenced them, which is just one thing I think we need to do as writers - be our own unique selves.

And if anyone happens to be a Fountains of Wayne fan, this "Fountains of Wayne Hotline" comedy sketch is very funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vVJ2Om-QVg

The story Reuben mentions does sound like it could be too close for comfort to me, though I don't think mirroring a specific story's plot is necessarily an issue, as long as the writer puts their own spin on it. How many stories use the seven-point story structure? How many professionally published stories are inspired by myths and legends? Thousands, even to the extent where they mirror those myths and legends. But these stories are all different.

I think learning and being inspired by others is how we creatively move forward as the human race. Modern films are better for being inspired by greats like Alfred Hitchcock, for example. There are duds inspired by Hitchcock of course, but when it's done well, I think it's great for people to learn from past masters. They may not be everyone's cup of tea (is that a saying outside the UK?), but look what The Beatles did with music, in terms of the inspirations they took from and generations they inspired. In a general sense, generations of humans repeat the mistakes of their ancestors, so we don't learn enough (or even copy enough) from our predecessors.

Back to writing, and consider the influence J.R.R. Tolkien has had on the writing world -- yet he was one of the biggest 'thieves' going. I think one of his masterstrokes was taking inspiration from so many different sources.

I'm not quite sure what the line is, but I have a feeling that if people are genuine about their inspirations aside from an obvious pastiche, then that's okay. Do a Tolkien and throw tens/hundreds of inspirations into a pot and see what you come up with. Everything we write comes from how we've been shaped in life up to that point in some way. If something is a straight copy, you lose what's unique about the story you've written, and that's you.

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Posted : January 6, 2021 7:23 am
(@morgan-broadhead)
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This topic has fascinated me for months now. Okay maybe years, who knows. I've had about fourteen mid-life crises so far. All that time I spent going *waves off in the vague distance* out there, trying to find myself and chasing down who I was. What I finally learned was this: you don't go out and find yourself...you create yourself. I'm pretty sure most people already knew this from an early age. It only took me about 180 years to finally figure it out.

I believe one's writers voice is basically the same way. I kept wondering when the heck my literary testicularies were gonna drop so I could finally get my "writing voice." I kept waiting and waiting and waiting... And then it dawned on me: I get to CREATE my writing voice! That voice is a culmination of all the voices from all the books and authors I love reading most. From one author, here's how you handle exposition. From another, here's how you do quippy dialogue. From another, that's how a flashback is done, son. Still others, man she nailed that first person POV—so immersive!

For me, it's been a process of throwing the techniques I love into a giant cauldron of wordsmithy stew and letting that thing reduce down until it tastes uniquely like me. Okay maybe don't think about that metaphor too much because, eww.

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Posted : August 31, 2021 12:23 pm
Shriya S, Wulf Moon, PenMark and 1 people reacted
David Hankins
(@lost_bard)
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@morgan-broadhead 

You just clarified what I’ve been trying to figure out for a while now. Even the wordsmithy stew made sense in a wonderfully disgusting way.

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Posted : September 3, 2021 4:51 am
PenMark
(@penmark)
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Same, @lost_bard. I felt like my writing voice was slowly developing, but it's really helpful to think of it in a more proactive, "go out and create something you love" kind of way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, @morgan-broadhead!

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Posted : September 3, 2021 9:17 am
(@wulfmoon)
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The more you write, the longer you live, the more your voice gets defined—IF you aren’t chasing others, and IF you aren’t writing to please a committee, i.e. your writing group, circle, or crit friends. It’s a delicate line. Protect Your Voice, one of my Super Secrets. 

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Posted : September 3, 2021 9:25 am
Agathon
(@agathon)
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A friend asked me if I'd ever heard of Autocrit. She signed up for a trial.

I guess it's software that compares your writing to a famous writer's work and gives you a grade. It'll apparently give you a percentage score of how well you imitate someone.

A separate feature is that it'll also compare your writing to successful published work in a genre.

It'll mark up your manuscript and make suggestions for improvement.

The friend and I met in a writer's group. One of the other writers in the group writes social commentary sci-fy in weird settings with almost indecipherable dialog. Autocrit gave him a 44% compared to the genre (I knew it!). My submission to WotF from last quarter got almost 80%.

Has anyone ever heard of this or use it?

The friend is taking some writing classes and thinks it might help her with school work.

The whole question just doesn't resonate with me. I also know plenty of people who like to write fan fiction. While they seem to enjoy themselves and there are pros who've made a good living off of fan fiction (Alan Dean Foster, I'm looking at YOU!), I just don't get the appeal. 

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Posted : September 6, 2021 2:01 pm
Morgan reacted
(@morgan-broadhead)
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Posted by: @agathon

A friend asked me if I'd ever heard of Autocrit. She signed up for a trial.

I guess it's software that compares your writing to a famous writer's work and gives you a grade. It'll apparently give you a percentage score of how well you imitate someone.

A separate feature is that it'll also compare your writing to successful published work in a genre.

It'll mark up your manuscript and make suggestions for improvement.

The friend and I met in a writer's group. One of the other writers in the group writes social commentary sci-fy in weird settings with almost indecipherable dialog. Autocrit gave him a 44% compared to the genre (I knew it!). My submission to WotF from last quarter got almost 80%.

Has anyone ever heard of this or use it?

The friend is taking some writing classes and thinks it might help her with school work.

The whole question just doesn't resonate with me. I also know plenty of people who like to write fan fiction. While they seem to enjoy themselves and there are pros who've made a good living off of fan fiction (Alan Dean Foster, I'm looking at YOU!), I just don't get the appeal. 

I've never used (or heard of) Autocrit before. Like you said, writing like someone else doesn't really appeal to me. I think of it like cover bands in music. Sure, there's a market for covers, and some bands have had a lot of success. You can make a killing in Vegas being an Elvis or Cher impersonator. Some people really dig that sort of thing. But the really BIG stars are the ones who have their own unique sound. You can hear them on the radio or streaming and know exactly who they are by the sound of their voices. Everyone is different and I guess it just comes down to what you enjoy doing.

"You can either sit here and write, or you can sit here and do nothing. But you can’t sit here and do anything else."
— Neil Gaiman, Masterclass

Drop me a line at https://morganbroadhead.com
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Posted : September 7, 2021 4:33 am
Joe Benet
(@joe-benet)
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No matter how much you mimic another's style, you will never be a perfect clone. Your version will inevitably sport a tweaked nucleobase or two. Since that other author's style drew an audience, adhering to it leaves you a ready-made market. Readers in that market obviously not only like the style, but surely also enjoy the freshness of different authors.

So, only plagiarism is too close for comfort. 

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Posted : September 14, 2021 8:23 am
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