Five Minute Rant

I only have five minutes, so here goes. I went to a writer's conference in beautiful Napa Valley.

1. A six inch baked potato is NOT a main course.

2. One piece of toast with a few pieces of lettuce on top is not a salad; it's an appetizer.

3. They promised a box lunch and promised a pizza for turning in an evaluation. For both, we were given a box of ramen noodles instead.

4. We picked up our food in the kitchen. It was already served up in stainless steel trays lined with parchment paper. (Who needs a choice). We marched through to an outside door to get a dessert square in a cloud of hornets in 100 degree temperatures (highest was 107). Those who weren't vegetarian could grab a couple slices of lunchmeat at the same time (yes, outside in the heat). On the other side of the kitchen patio, we could select our drink... water or the sweet drink of the day (like punch). We ate outside in the courtyard.

5. When the women's restroom ran out of soap the last morning, they didn't bother to replace it. We were only going to be there until after lunch after all.

6. I took a room in a 'recommended' motel. Killed a cockroach on day 4.

7. Only coffee for breakfast. NO TEA!!? Abomination! Barbarians!

8. It wasn't cheap. With fee, motel, flights, supplemental food... thousands.

Damn that's a poor conference. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. Wish I had a better one to suggest but San Diego not's your local neighborhood.

I only have five minutes, so here goes. I went to a writer's conference in beautiful Napa Valley.

1. A six inch baked potato is NOT a main course.

2. One piece of toast with a few pieces of lettuce on top is not a salad; it's an appetizer.

3. They promised a box lunch and promised a pizza for turning in an evaluation. For both, we were given a box of ramen noodles instead.

4. We picked up our food in the kitchen. It was already served up in stainless steel trays lined with parchment paper. (Who needs a choice). We marched through to an outside door to get a dessert square in a cloud of hornets in 100 degree temperatures (highest was 107). Those who weren't vegetarian could grab a couple slices of lunchmeat at the same time (yes, outside in the heat). On the other side of the kitchen patio, we could select our drink... water or the sweet drink of the day (like punch). We ate outside in the courtyard.

5. When the women's restroom ran out of soap the last morning, they didn't bother to replace it. We were only going to be there until after lunch after all.

6. I took a room in a 'recommended' motel. Killed a cockroach on day 4.

7. Only coffee for breakfast. NO TEA!!? Abomination! Barbarians!

8. It wasn't cheap. With fee, motel, flights, supplemental food... thousands.

Damn that's a poor conference. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. Wish I had a better one to suggest but San Diego not's your local neighborhood.

Definitely not what I expected. On the non-rant side, I made two wonderful friends, have twelve objective copies of comments on my novel, and thumbs up all the way around on my writing. But I can't say that cause this is a RANT,RANT, RANT thread! And I need my Taylor's of Harrogate or I get grumpy (eventually brought my own).

Don't tell Bob, but Harrogate is in Yorkshire, like most things.

Didn't know they grew tea in Harrogate. But it is a Spa town, so they have nice hotels and I dare say we could organise a writers' conference there if we wanted. I have never seen a cockroach in Harrogate. So - I suggest that WotF could have a grand gala in Harrogate sometime soon. I could volunteer my services as interpreter if I don't win the competition.

(A fib - they speak English in Harrogate; it's very POSH.)

Don't tell Bob, but Harrogate is in Yorkshire, like most things.

Didn't know they grew tea in Harrogate. But it is a Spa town, so they have nice hotels and I dare say we could organise a writers' conference there if we wanted. I have never seen a cockroach in Harrogate. So - I suggest that WotF could have a grand gala in Harrogate sometime soon. I could volunteer my services as interpreter if I don't win the competition.

(A fib - they speak English in Harrogate; it's very POSH.)

I'm not convinced they speak English anywhere on that side of the pond.

Don't tell Bob, but Harrogate is in Yorkshire, like most things.

Didn't know they grew tea in Harrogate. But it is a Spa town, so they have nice hotels and I dare say we could organise a writers' conference there if we wanted. I have never seen a cockroach in Harrogate. So - I suggest that WotF could have a grand gala in Harrogate sometime soon. I could volunteer my services as interpreter if I don't win the competition.

(A fib - they speak English in Harrogate; it's very POSH.)

Yes, a bit further than San Diego (about twice as far in plane hours). But POSH is a bit scary. It certainly explains Yorkshire and Yorkshire Gold blends. I believe they must just gather the Kwazulu and Scottish. Scottish is my favorite. Of course there is green tea. But who wants green when they can have the rich fullness of the black?

As far as cockroaches, I am assuming that's what the beast was. He was awfully rugged (took four whacks to take him down and two more to squash him to my satisfaction... I've heard the beasts are wily survivors, so we flushed his remains). And he was very quick for his girth. I knew there was some reason I put up with the harsh winters here. As far as interpreter, I find some difficulty with the more colorful accents. We may need your services after all. I've yet to figure out how to pronounce the Welsh town names. (Of course, Wales isn't near Yorkshire, but northerly enough for a visit while across the pond).

Not even the Welsh agree on how to pronounce Welsh. The main problems are the extra vowels:

w is pronounced something like 'u' or 'oo'

y is pronounced something like 'uh'

whilst the vowel u which English tends to use for the above sounds is pronounced 'i' (short, as in 'lick')

The Welsh for Wales is Cymru (pronounced Come - ri)

Try here: http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/fun/welsh/Lesson01.html

Harrogate by the way has been voted the happiest place to live in the UK and the third most romantic destination in the world, ahead of more obvious candidates such as:

Paris
Rome
Vienna

Not even the Welsh agree on how to pronounce Welsh. The main problems are the extra vowels:

w is pronounced something like 'u' or 'oo'

y is pronounced something like 'uh'

whilst the vowel u which English tends to use for the above sounds is pronounced 'i' (short, as in 'lick')

The Welsh for Wales is Cymru (pronounced Come - ri)

Try here: http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/fun/welsh/Lesson01.html

Harrogate by the way has been voted the happiest place to live in the UK and the third most romantic destination in the world, ahead of more obvious candidates such as:

Paris
Rome
Vienna

Maybe I should learn to say it like they do since I may have some Welsh in me. My family name seems to have come from there. Perhaps that is the reason I would like to learn more about Wales. And because they seemed to be left out. A lot of tales and vacations happen in Ireland, Scotland and England but Wales seems to get left out as I said.

35 day form R from Interzone.

Think Gator's off to eat someone.

35 day form R from Interzone.

Think Gator's off to eat someone.

Wow!

Mind you I once went longer when they forgot to reply altogether, but I don't suppose that counts. Otherwise my record from them is 17. You must have been entertaining high hopes. (Now you have to get out of that bad habit.)

35 day form R from Interzone.

Think Gator's off to eat someone.

Wow!

Mind you I once went longer when they forgot to reply altogether, but I don't suppose that counts. Otherwise my record from them is 17. You must have been entertaining high hopes. (Now you have to get out of that bad habit.)

Presumably they didn't just lose my story then suddenly rediscover it down the back of the sofa, though who knows?

Anyhow I've been in this position so many times I really ought to know better than to hope. But I can't help it, I sit staring at the Grinder stats and thinking "This is it! This is the one!" until it isn't.

I gave in and sent a query to Giganotosaurus too yesterday, at 122 days. I had to query them last time as well, after c.85 days so I was hesitant to send another one but I figured it had to be done. I expect I'll get another R from them very soon now.

Presumably they didn't just lose my story then suddenly rediscover it down the back of the sofa, though who knows?

You know that really does happen! When my dad worked as a postman (sometime in the 70s/80s), one family kept complaining they never got their letters. It was only after a couple of months they moved their couch and found all the letters stuffed between it and the wall.
It was a small place, so it wasn't unusual for postmen to drop the mail through windows - often that worked better than the mailboxes.

Oh, I'm babbling. That's what happens when stories are in queue and I'm jittery and had too much coffee

Presumably they didn't just lose my story then suddenly rediscover it down the back of the sofa, though who knows?

You know that really does happen! When my dad worked as a postman (sometime in the 70s/80s), one family kept complaining they never got their letters. It was only after a couple of months they moved their couch and found all the letters stuffed between it and the wall.
It was a small place, so it wasn't unusual for postmen to drop the mail through windows - often that worked better than the mailboxes.

There's a story in there somewhere... hmmm

Presumably they didn't just lose my story then suddenly rediscover it down the back of the sofa, though who knows?

You know that really does happen! When my dad worked as a postman (sometime in the 70s/80s), one family kept complaining they never got their letters. It was only after a couple of months they moved their couch and found all the letters stuffed between it and the wall.
It was a small place, so it wasn't unusual for postmen to drop the mail through windows - often that worked better than the mailboxes.

Oh, I'm babbling. That's what happens when stories are in queue and I'm jittery and had too much coffee

Maybe the bits and bytes fell through the spaces in between the multiple universes.
But that can't be true, as Interzone use one of those submission systems, so I could see my story sitting there labelled "in progress".

There there.

Oh look, bless. She can be nice, you see?

Wot? Me? Nice? Never!
Me mean ferocious nasty fearsome ENORMOUS evil Gator thing!

Yes dear.

I simply cannot train myself to succeed in the fine art of not hoping. My submission to the Tor.com Novella Program kept substantially outstaying the estimated response time they kept changing. Telling myself not to hope, I hoped anyway. Form rejection today. Sigh. (technically, a sigh is not much of a rant, but it's all I've got right now)

I simply cannot train myself to succeed in the fine art of not hoping. My submission to the Tor.com Novella Program kept substantially outstaying the estimated response time they kept changing. Telling myself not to hope, I hoped anyway. Form rejection today. Sigh. (technically, a sigh is not much of a rant, but it's all I've got right now)

I hear you. A quick rejection is far easier to take than a hope building eleventh hour rejection. Then when it's just a form, it's like "What was all that about anyway?"

I received a self inflicted form of this yesterday. My story had withstood wave after wave of Grinder reports. The number of remaining stories was rapidly dwindling... then a I got an email, "You forgot to attach your story."
I sheepishly resubmitted and was promptly and properly rejected.

I simply cannot train myself to succeed in the fine art of not hoping. My submission to the Tor.com Novella Program kept substantially outstaying the estimated response time they kept changing. Telling myself not to hope, I hoped anyway. Form rejection today. Sigh. (technically, a sigh is not much of a rant, but it's all I've got right now)

I'm afraid to submit to Tor.com. 9 months before you can query? That's just a really, really long time.

My sigh of a rant was actually about their new (to me, anyway) novella program that considers novellas and even up to the short end of novel length at about 40k. If you have stuff that long, it seems worth an attempt when they open submission windows for unagented authors.

Tor.com's short fiction does have long waits at times, but they've gotten more first readers and it's considerably shorter than it used to be. I think the nine month query thing is when they consider a sub likely lost or something. I've had a story there now for a little over three months.

The way I look at subbing there is that it's kind of fun (with varying degrees of stress) to hope it lasts four months and then you can imagine it in the second look pile. The longer it stays, the greater the possibility they're considering it.

Aaand then the form rejection may hit.

Grrr. Arrgh. Repeat.

They're an extremely desirable market, and pay fabulous rates. Which is why I subbed there even when the waits were routinely eight months. I'll sit on subs to just about anywhere desirable, even until they threaten to collapse under the wait.
You just never know when something wonderful might happen.

... even until they threaten to collapse under the wait.

That's my kind of sentence, right there.

So how long is the Tor wait these days?
All I can see on Grinder is anywhere between 4(??) to 490 days...I'm on day 70 with a story a kinda-sorta like, so I'm wondering when I should get my hopes up/down

Could be a little while. Lulled into optimism by their recent spurt I sent in a story which is now 85. Previous was around 116, earlier this year.

Recent rejections are around 100 days. If you are less than that, then they probably haven't looked at your story yet.
Perhaps the shorter times like 4 days are for flash? Just a guess.

Thanks, Ishmael and amoskalik
So it won't be too long now

Well a certain magazine has just done it to me again. Just when I am becoming quite optimistic I remember the last time and decide to check on Submittable just to be sure. And what do you know? Once again I find a rejection notified to Submittable but not to me.

Now come on guys. How hard can it be to push the button and email a form rejection?

It's not that I want a form rejection, you understand, but it's a lot better than false hopes. When some magazines can do 75% personals it really is a bit much when others can't even manage forms!

BUT, see supra:

Mind you I once went longer when they forgot to reply altogether, but I don't suppose that counts. Otherwise my record from them is 17. You must have been entertaining high hopes. (Now you have to get out of that bad habit.)

Okay. Me again. Does no-one else feel like a bit of a rant now and again?

153 day form rejection from Analog.

I mean really! AAAAAAAAARGH! 3 weeks longer than last time and a one liner AGAIN!

Are these guys trying to bug me or what? I mean it's not so long ago I could get a form from Analog in a mere 78 days. Now it takes twice as long for the same result?

Do you suppose they are getting really SLOOOOOOOW or should I clutch at straws and take this as a sign of improvement?

Ugh. Analog.
I stopped sending stuff there because of the long wait for a form. It's like, literary magazine wait times.
Then again, I don't write Analogy stories. Technical, I am not.
I've got four stories in the range of 136-170 days. When I get forms, I too will

I got one too. I keep trying, but they're at the further end of my submission order due to the wait time. Gives me a chance to look it over before I send it to TOR.com. Then it's down to semi pro markets.

Truly, the waiting is the hardest part.

It seems a strange strategy to reduce the number of submissions by extending the wait time. The end result is only getting picked over stories. If they just pay less, they'd get the same stories by being at the top of the semipro list with less expense. I wonder why they do it this way?

Been meaning to post here for over a week.

Had two rejections as I predicted now there is a third.

They were suppose to be good, solid stories using what I have learned recently. Same results as usual-total rejections. Well, the last one wasn't quite total but I haven't been able to get any higher than that stage so it just as well be. So nothing no how, no when.

It seems a strange strategy to reduce the number of submissions by extending the wait time. The end result is only getting picked over stories. If they just pay less, they'd get the same stories by being at the top of the semipro list with less expense. I wonder why they do it this way?

I think they're probably resting on their laurels. It has been the case for a long time that publication in Analog marks your arrival on the Sci Fi writing scene. Everyone used to want that accolade. Old Timers like me still do. But you're right in saying that such a long wait for a one-liner is a pretty big turn off. You can try half a dozen other major professional markets in the time it takes Analog to get round to noticing your existence nowadays and as Dawn says you're likely to demote them in your order of submission priority if you think the story has real potential.

At the other end of the scale, I don't feel very happy with more or less instant turnarounds either. I always tend to think that the average slush reader is likely to be nervous of sending forward anything that doesn't fit his guidelines and that makes it easier for unoriginal stories and harder for original ones to progress. Call it hubris if you like, but I don't think I write rubbish these days, so if a market bounces a submission really fast I tend to feel there's at least some chance that the error is theirs.