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AVDutson
(@avdutson)
Active Member
Posts: 24

Has anyone else noticed the word count discrepancy in different writing software? I was using GoogleDocs and had a word count at 16,990. But in OpenOffice it was 17,234 and 17,136 In Word. I guess the question is:

Is Word considered the industry standard?

~Tony
A.V. Dutson
R : 2, HM : 4, SHM : 2, F : 0, SF : 0, W : 0
"A good writer possesses not only his own spirit, but also the spirit of his friends."
~Friedrich Nietzsche

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Posted : December 31, 2019 2:07 pm
StarReacher
(@angelakayd)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 141

Oh, my goodness, what a wild last 2 days!

I am in for Q1 for both stories. With a good 15 minutes to spare - LOL

WoTF - roughly 5,000 words
pro submission - 7,000 words

Kind of glad I just now saw Wulf's extension for the 2nd story. Yes, I am sleep-deprived. But also on an adrenaline high because I succeeded.

Happy New Year!!

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Posted : December 31, 2019 2:44 pm
ZeeTeeBeeZ
(@zeeteebeez)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 151

Well, I’m in for WotF.

I ended up submitting my second story which I wrote almost completely today.

Did a KYD previously and built the story around that seed, which made writing it in one day a reasonable proposition.

3250 word count for WotF.
3650 word count for the pro submission which will go out to F&SF tonight.

Good luck to everyone still writing! Excited to cheer everyone on for their q1 subs.

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Posted : December 31, 2019 2:58 pm
ZeeTeeBeeZ
(@zeeteebeez)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 151

Just for record-keeping, I have submitted both stories.

Happy New Year!

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Posted : December 31, 2019 3:27 pm
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

Nice job, guys! I've got both submissions down for oishisushi, StarReacher, and zeeteebeez. For those of you who have already done both of your submissions: get cracking on the next quarter! For those of you still working: in the wise words of Larry the Cable Guy, git 'er done!

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : December 31, 2019 3:58 pm
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Has anyone else noticed the word count discrepancy in different writing software? I was using GoogleDocs and had a word count at 16,990. But in OpenOffice it was 17,234 and 17,136 In Word. I guess the question is:

Is Word considered the industry standard?

I've seen the discrepancy when we did KYD exercises in the first year of SUPER SECRETS. I reminded some their entries were over, and found Googledocs had a lower count than Word in those cases. A little scary. They should all count the same in a perfect world. But then again, we don't have a perfect world...

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Topic starter Posted : December 31, 2019 5:33 pm
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Oh, my goodness, what a wild last 2 days!

I am in for Q1 for both stories. With a good 15 minutes to spare - LOL

WoTF - roughly 5,000 words
pro submission - 7,000 words

Kind of glad I just now saw Wulf's extension for the 2nd story. Yes, I am sleep-deprived. But also on an adrenaline high because I succeeded.

Happy New Year!!

You remind me....of ME!

Well done! Sleep is for mortals! You can catch up in the new year. Which is tonight. Smile

Happy to see all the good results, challenge beasties! It's going to be a GREAT year!

All the beast!

Beastmaster Moon

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Topic starter Posted : December 31, 2019 5:36 pm
Henckel
(@henckel)
Silver Member
Posts: 417

I just submitted with 7 minutes to spare!

A BIG thank you to Tim, Alex, and Liz for their last minute crits. Y'all are awesome!!!!!

(2014) V31 Q1 – R
(2018) V35 Q3 – HM
(2019) V36 Q3 – HM
(2019) V36 Q4 – SHM
(2020) V37 Q1 – R
(2020) V37 Q2 – HM
(2020) V37 Q3 – SHM
(2020) V37 Q4 – Finalist
(2021) V38 Q1 – Semi-finalist
(2021) V38 Q2 – SHM
(2021) V38 Q3 – tba

Coolest Achievements
(2019) Published in Escape Anthology
(2020) Published in Sci-Fi Lampoon
(2020) V37 Q4 – Finalist
(2020) Dream Foundry - Shortlisted
(2021) Mike Resnick Memorial Award - 3rd Place winner!!! (to be published)

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Posted : December 31, 2019 5:55 pm
Peter_Glen
(@peter_glen)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 143

Thanks for the extension Wulf! Have been working all day to get my second story ready to go out and have just fallen short. The market that I've found for this one closes in one day, so will need to get it out tonight.

hehe, 7 mins, way to go Chris! GL to all!!

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Posted : December 31, 2019 7:10 pm
MountainSpud
(@jeschleicher)
Bronze Member
Posts: 61

I submitted two fresh stories this quarter ...one to WOTF, the other to F&SF.

Regardless of publication, I'm very happy with the definitive improvement in the quality of my story telling. Much thanks goes to Wulf and the Wulf Pack. Y'all rock! Wulf, I know I speak for many to say how invaluable your instruction has been. You embody the spirt of this contest. Wulf Pack, thank you for the encouragement and the community. I wish and expect the best for all!

Here's to a rockin' 2020!

Cheers!
John Eric

R X 3
HM X 3
SHM X 1

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Posted : December 31, 2019 10:18 pm
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

Great job, Henckel! Got you down!

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : December 31, 2019 11:47 pm
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

My first submission for Q2 is out! Not sure if it counts or not, though, because I've been working on it since the beginning of December...either way, I will be writing at least another two stories this quarter. Smile

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : January 1, 2020 2:38 am
Peter_Glen
(@peter_glen)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 143

Have just submitted a 6000 word story to Space and Time mag and have now met the requirements for Q1 (including flash).

Much thanks goes to Wulf and the Wulf Pack. Y'all rock! Wulf, I know I speak for many to say how invaluable your instruction has been.

Well said JE ... I second that 😉

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Posted : January 1, 2020 8:52 am
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Thanks for the kind words, guys! I appreciate it. It makes me happy to see you running with the bulls. You aren't holding back anymore, you are giving your writing a chance to be seen by other important markets as well, which can get you published, which can get you readers! Keep up the great work--you are making tremendous progress.

And Peter Glen? We hit 60,000 views during your post above. Wow!

More Secrets to come. Wanted to give you all a window free from assignments to meet the challenge quarterly deadline. Some of you got a reprieve with the extension. Use it well, and don't expect one for the other quarters. And for those dealing with serious illness, don't sweat this challenge. Health, life, and family come first. We truly hope you get good answers, good medical direction and treatment, and find yourself having quality of life again. One of you just gave me some very good news regarding your health. We often do get the good side of the coin, and can be grateful for the new sense of purpose and appreciation for life it gives us.

May all of us have better days ahead!

All the beast,

Wulf Moon

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Topic starter Posted : January 1, 2020 9:40 am
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

Thanks for the break, Moon!

Peter Glen, I got your submission down, thank you!

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : January 1, 2020 10:33 am
Henckel
(@henckel)
Silver Member
Posts: 417

Great job, Henckel! Got you down!

Thanks!!

Almost forgot to mention that I've submitted fresh story to pro market too.

(2014) V31 Q1 – R
(2018) V35 Q3 – HM
(2019) V36 Q3 – HM
(2019) V36 Q4 – SHM
(2020) V37 Q1 – R
(2020) V37 Q2 – HM
(2020) V37 Q3 – SHM
(2020) V37 Q4 – Finalist
(2021) V38 Q1 – Semi-finalist
(2021) V38 Q2 – SHM
(2021) V38 Q3 – tba

Coolest Achievements
(2019) Published in Escape Anthology
(2020) Published in Sci-Fi Lampoon
(2020) V37 Q4 – Finalist
(2020) Dream Foundry - Shortlisted
(2021) Mike Resnick Memorial Award - 3rd Place winner!!! (to be published)

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Posted : January 1, 2020 3:41 pm
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

Yep, no worries, got you down for that as well.

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : January 1, 2020 11:49 pm
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

Good morning, y'all, and happy new year! Moon asked me to post the roster as it stands today, and so here it is. None of you missed the WotF deadline--well done! For those of you still working on getting your second story submitted, keep on working. Five days left!

Once again, if I've missed a submission that you've already posted, please PM me via the forum. Otherwise, as always, new submissions get posted here in the thread.

MEMBERSHIP ROSTER
Moon's SUPER SECRET Bonus Challenge, Vol. 37 "How to Sell Your Stories"

To keep all ye beasties accountable, here is the list of who is in the challenge and whether they've submitted for each quarter. When the thread receives updates from you, so too shall the list. This is not going to track which markets you've submitted to. Just the fact that you've submitted.

officer

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

RSchibler

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

thegirlintheglasses

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 3/12

SwiftPotato

Q1: both markets submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 3/12

AjZach

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 3/12

CCrawford

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 3/12

Retropianoplayer

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 5/12

storysinger

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 6/12

Peter Glen

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

einstein36

Q1: WotF submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

AlexH

Q1: WotF submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 4/12

StarReacher

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

Henckel

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

JESchleicher

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

AVDutson

Q1: WotF submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

zeeteebeez

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:

oishisushi911

Q1: WotF submitted, other market submitted
Q2:
Q3:
Q4:
Extra credit flash challenge: 3/12

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : January 2, 2020 12:53 am
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

In addition, here is the TOC once more, for the first of the month. Formatting tweaked by Moon, looks much better now. Smile
All pages are for ascending order in the forum. Links will take you directly to the comments explaining each Super Secret. Many thanks to SwiftPotato (our Volume 36 winner!) for compiling this list!

Wulf Moon's SUPER SECRET Bonus Challenge, Vol. 36

BOOK ONE

Wulf Moon's SUPER SECRETS: How to Write a Winning Story

Copyright 2018 by Wulf Moon. All Rights Reserved.

SUPER SECRET #0: Proper manuscript format for the win! Improper manuscript format for the lose! - p.8

SUPER SECRET #1: Enter EVERY quarter. - p.2

SUPER SECRET #2: DON'T drive to the story! - p.2

SUPER SECRET #3: Set the hook! - p.2

SUPER SECRET #4: Pick a major emotion and make your reader FEEL it down to their core! - p.2

SUPER SECRET #5: A story is a PROMISE. - p.3

SUPER SECRET #6: Hint in your opening the grand vista of your world. - p.3

SUPER SECRET #7: Private message for challenge members only. - p.3

SUPER SECRET #8: Kill "as you know, Bobs" in your story! - p.3

SUPER SECRET #9: Open your story with your protagonist. - p.3

SUPER SECRET #10: Private message for challenge members only. - p.3

SUPER SECRET #11: Triple check that your name is OFF your manuscript!!! - p.3

SUPER SECRET #12: MAGIC UP FRONT! - p.3

SUPER SECRET #13: DON’T OVEREDIT! - p.4

SUPER SECRET #14: Do not overthink your story! - p.4

SUPER SECRET #15: Open your short story with 1. A CHARACTER, 2. in a SETTING, 3. with a PROBLEM. - p.5

SUPER SECRET #16: Read your story out loud. - p.6

SUPER SECRET #17: Know thy judge! - p.7

SUPER SECRET #18: Start your #%$@#%!& hero’s quest! We’re on the clock! - p.7

SUPER SECRET #19: Mock-up your story! - p.8

SUPER SECRET #20: Employ the 7 Point Plot model. - p.9

SUPER SECRET #21: KISS. - p.10

SUPER-DUPER SECRET #1: Take your reader on a *deep* emotional journey. - p.11

SUPER SECRET #22: THINGS GET WORSE! - p.12 and p.14

SUPER SECRET #23: READ! - p.15

SUPER SECRET #24: Study your judge! - p.15

SUPER SECRET #25: For WotF, DON'T write a story in first person narrative! - p.17

SUPER SECRET #26: Find your wise reader! Preferably, someone with more pro sales than you! - p.18

SUPER SECRET #27: Private message for challenge members only. - p.18

SUPER SECRET #28: YOU MUST WRITE. - p.20

SUPER SECRET #29: Help your subconscious to ENGAGE. - p.21

SUPER SECRET #30: Experience life, don't just read about other people's experiences. - p.22

SUPER SECRET #31: Not too long, not too short. Your story needs to be jusssst right. - p.23

SUPER SECRET #32: Deploy your MAGIC SWORD. - p.30

SUPER SECRET #33: KILL YOUR DARLINGS: The Economy of Words Flash Exercise - p.33 for summary and tip; p.22-28 for exercise and critiques

SUPER SECRET #34: A Climax Goes Big Badda Boom - p.34

SUPER SECRET #35: "Who was that masked man?" - p.36

Wulf Moon's SUPER SECRET Bonus Challenge, Vol. 37

BOOK TWO

Wulf Moon's SUPER SECRETS: RELEASE THE KRAKEN! How to Get Professionally Published

Copyright 2019 by Wulf Moon. All Rights Reserved.

SUPER SECRET #36: RELEASE THE KRAKEN! - p.47

SUPER SECRET #37: Aim Your Baby Kraken at a Ship it Can Take Down! - p.51

SUPER SECRET #38: Cover letters--how you dress to kill - p.54

SUPER SECRET #39: Protect your voice - p.63

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : January 2, 2020 12:56 am
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Swift, could you please update the list with Super Secret #39: Protect Your Voice. Thank you! Super Secret #40 coming up next! Winter break is almost over! Waiting for all you guys to come back from Cancun, all tan, all sober, all relaxed and ready to ENGAGE once again.

THE PARTY IS OVER! wotf001

See you soon!

BEASTMASTER MOON

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Topic starter Posted : January 2, 2020 4:00 am
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Year End Writing Awards

This isn't a Super Secret, but it probably should be. At the end of the year, the industry looks back on works published in speculative fiction for the year. They publish recommended reading lists, they list nominations for best stories and novels of the year, and they vote for their favorites. Some of these awards can change a writers future. All of them increase exposure and visibility for a writer and their works. It can never hurt your career to have hundreds, if not thousands, say you wrote something special. Publishers watch these awards. Editors watch these awards. Agents take note. And readers often go get the winners' works to find some great stories, and perhaps discover their newest favorite author. This is next level stuff. But like a good captain, it's good to have your eyes not just on the water in front of you, but on that not so distant horizon as well. Winning contests makes a difference. It's why you are trying so hard to win Writers of the Future. You understand this more than most.

The Critters Readers' Choice Awards are one of these contests. And our Writers of the Future Forum is #1 right now for Best Writers' Discussion Forum. I posted this elsewhere, but I am guessing many of the nice quotes on Critters about our WotF Forum were from you challenge beasties right here. You should know David Farland messaged me and said he read them, and was greatly encouraged. It made him very happy to see all of the positive comments about the Forum and Writers of the Future. You and others seriously crowned the end of his year with goodness. Well done! You didn't just ask the industry to give to you, you gave back to the industry. And David Farland noticed. So did I. I'm proud of the Forum, and I'm proud of all of you.

All award programs increase visibility, and the Critters Readers' Choice Awards are no exception. Two thousand readers from around the world vote in them, and watch not only first place winners, but also the Top 10 Awards in each category. Polling ends January 14th, and a lot can happen between now and then. Thank you for voting for your favorites, whatever they might be. As you obtain your own noteworthy sales in 2020, you'll have opportunities to nominate and be nominated. Sharing in the voting now helps you learn the ropes. Winning awards like Writers of the Future and Critters Readers' Choice and all the big name ones gets your writing seen, your pro branding established. With your first pro sale, you can become an associate member in SFWA, which does include voting rights on the Nebulas. Many pro magazines have their own subscribers' choice awards for stories in their publication (we've got one going on in Future-SF right now). You can even cast your votes for the Hugos simply by purchasing a membership for the year. There are lots of ways we can all have a part in participating in and shaping our industry by casting a light on stories, novels, authors, editors, and publishers we love and respect. As you participate, study how the system works. One day soon, it will be your works you've sent out and sold that will be up for nominations. So worm your way in and become an active member in our industry, however you are able. A little pro advice for you at the start of the new year!

Back to Critters. In the Critters Readers' Choice Awards, any reader can vote. You know "Moongirl" is up for Best Science Fiction and Fantasy Short Story (thanks to all for the wonderful comments!), and it's been holding solid at #1. I'm gratified to see my WotF winner holding its own, but the race is not over, so who knows what will happen. Our WotF Forum has been holding solid at #1 as Best Writers' Forum, and our SUPER SECRETS workshop here is doing well under Best Writing Workshop. Under Best Anthology, well, if your favorite in 2019 was WotF Vol. 35, it could use some love. Again, only vote that it was your favorite if it actually was your favorite.

Have fun participating in our industry in this voting season for works published in 2019. May all of you have stories nominated for awards at the end of this year! Or win Writers of the Future. That's the best award an aspiring writer can win! Cheers!

If you wish to place your votes in Critters' various categories, here's the list: https://critters.org/predpoll/

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Topic starter Posted : January 2, 2020 5:46 am
storysinger
(@storysinger)
Gold Member
Posts: 882

Again, only vote that it was your favorite if it actually was your favorite.

It was definitely my favorite anthology of the year, so I voted for it.
Leah, I had more fun with the latest prompt than all the rest.
I wrote a 1000+ story for the catch and release prompt.
My radioactive rodents(beavers living downstream from a nuclear plant) have decided to play catch and release with the humans invading their lake. It's the closest thing to comedy I've ever written.

Today's science fiction is tomorrow's reality-D.R.Sweeney
HM-V32/Q3
HM-V36/Q4
HM-V38/Q1

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Posted : January 2, 2020 6:05 am
CCrawford
(@ccrawford)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 225

My radioactive rodents(beavers living downstream from a nuclear plant) have decided to play catch and release with the humans invading their lake. It's the closest thing to comedy I've ever written.

That sounds awesome! wotf010

v35: Q4 - HM
V36: R, R, R, R
V37: SHM, HM, HM, SHM
V38: SHM, HM, ??
Indie author of The Lex Chronicles (Legends of Arameth), and the in-progress Leyward Stones series--including my serial, Macchiatos, Faerie Princes, and Other Things That Happen at Midnight, currently available on the new Kindle Vella platform. The Vella story is also available through my Patreon, along with side stories, behind the scenes content, and in-progress drafts of other books from my Leyward Stones world.
Website: http://ccrawfordwriting.com. I also have a newsletter and a blog!
Upcoming short story publication in DreamForge Anvil, October 2021 issue!

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Posted : January 2, 2020 6:51 am
Chezecaek
(@chezecaek)
Active Member
Posts: 16

Ah man, that bit about the judges not liking first person...all my best stories that I want to submit are in first person. But secret number 39 is protect your voice, so that’s that. I guess the judges will be getting some first person stories from me.

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Posted : January 2, 2020 7:49 am
SwiftPotato
(@swiftpotato)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 555

Glad you enjoyed it, storysinger. That sounds fabulous!

R, 3rd place Q4 v36!!!
Stories in Apocalyptic, Cossmass Infinities, and Podcastle

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Posted : January 2, 2020 8:16 am
Retropianoplayer
(@retropianoplayer)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 231

Hello Chezecaek,

I'm not positive. But I believe in one of Wulf's posts on this voluminous thread, he mentioned that if a work is high quality and deserves to win, the single factor of first-person narrative will not prohibit a Judge, or any Judge for that matter, from declaring a win. If I recall correctly, it's a general guideline reflecting some Judge's personal preference, not a hard and fast rule.

Again, I'm just paraphrasing from memory, and quoting no one.

Best,

Retro

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Posted : January 2, 2020 9:57 am
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Hello Chezecaek,

I'm not positive. But I believe in one of Wulf's posts on this voluminous thread, he mentioned that if a work is high quality and deserves to win, the single factor of first-person narrative will not prohibit a Judge, or any Judge for that matter, from declaring a win. If I recall correctly, it's a general guideline reflecting some Judge's personal preference, not a hard and fast rule.

Again, I'm just paraphrasing from memory, and quoting no one.

Best,

Retro

Retro is correct. First person POV has won. But at the WotF workshop, David Farland, Orson Scott Card, and Tim Powers all spoke against writing in first person. Scott Card was adamant that you should NEVER write in first person, that third person past tense is the only true way to tell a story. I respect Scott Card, but of course, have my own views on that. There is no rule on this for the contest. But if you know key judges--including the paramount contest coordinating judge--don't like a certain format, then let the writer beware!

That said, they did say they would vote fairly on the Finalists' stories presented for final judging, even if written in first person.

I'm just letting you know that you can probably up your chances of a win writing in third person, past tense. It's a fairly standard POV to tell a story in, although if you're writing in YA, I'd think seriously about writing in first person. And you can't argue with Michael Connelly's Lincoln Lawyer series. First person. Who wouldn't want his career? Or ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT. Who wouldn't want to have written a classic like that? First person.

I am mainly talking about this contest, and some of the leanings of the judges, which might make a difference between your story's success or failure.

All the beast,

Beastmaster Moon

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Topic starter Posted : January 2, 2020 10:17 am
ZeeTeeBeeZ
(@zeeteebeez)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 151

I haven’t done an official tally, but it seems like first person outweighs third in recent volumes. Or at least it’s close. Even a 2nd person in volume 34 I believe. Definitely have heard a number of the judges say 3rd only, so I try to write 3rd only, but sometimes I wonder. As Moon can attest, certain stories lend themselves to certain pov’s.

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Posted : January 2, 2020 2:59 pm
chuckt
(@chuckt)
Silver Member
Posts: 419

I took Dave's intensive writing workshop last year. He mentioned that 1st person practically dominates YA and YA is an important market to WotF. He didn't say he changed his mind on it but it seemed to me that his tone was accepting. My own take away from the comments is that, particularly for a YA story, they don't think it's a bad thing. I think of Moon Girl as a YA story in which FirstP works really well. In fact, I can't imagine it written any other way.

Wulf (or whoever knows): Isn't there a place to read all the Hugo and Nebula short story nominees? I'm sure I stumbled across it but cannot remember the details.

36: R, R, R, SHM
37: R, HM, R, HM
38: HM, R, ?

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Posted : January 3, 2020 2:20 am
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2278

Chuck, as to where to read all the Hugo and Neb nominees and winners, they publish the award anthologies every year. I'm not aware of any place online to read them all.

David Farland had an excellent essay in his Story Doctor's Tips today. Who will be first to post the six questions he says to ask ourselves before we write a fresh story?

All the beast,

Beastmaster Moon

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Topic starter Posted : January 3, 2020 10:19 am
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