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Discussion Q2 Volume 39

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Cherrie
(@clfors)
Silver Member
 

@r-w-ware Nice! I do book covers as well but so far self-published stuff, nothing to disqualify me. 

3x Finalist Illustrators
3x Semi finalist Illustrators
1x HM Illustrators
6x HM Writers
https://clforsauthor.com
Author of the Primogenitor series: Progeny, Adaptation, Reunion Available on Amazon under CL Fors

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 5:28 am
Physa/ Guthington/ Amy
(@physa)
Silver Star Member
 

This week or next is when I originally guessed we'd get our Q2 results. My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails. I think they'll send the emails and update the blog with finalized results all in one day. That's my guess. 

By the way, if the pattern holds, Q3 results will be released in November and there'll be a mad rush to get the Q4 results out so volume 39 can be edited and assembled in time for the gala. May there be folks from the forum in attendance!

In the meantime, we could learn a lot from reading through volume 29 jibber jabber. And a lot can be learned from Moon's super secrets. His volume 39 challenge echoes the importance of sending stuff out to professional markets that can be gleaned from the jibber jabber thread. Use this to sharpen stories into diamonds. It's a good lesson that I'm striving to learn myself.

Really glad I attended Moon's Flow state webinar this past weekend. I liked the longer, four hour session better than the rushed 1.5 hour one. My main take away is just how damaging interruptions are. I'm glad it's not just me that has to work hard to get back into flow state after being interrupted, Smile

May all of our received emails this week and next be pleasant... 

WOTF results:
Before Moon's Vol 39 challenge, 6 R's: Vol 31 Q3, Vol 33 Q3, Vol 35, Q4, Vol 37 Q3 and Q4, and Vol 38 Q3.
For Moon's Vol 39 challenge:
Q1 RWC, Q2 HM, Q3 HM, Q4 in progress...
IOTF results:
Vol 39: Q1 HM, Q2 R, Q3 P, Q4 P
According to Winston Churchill, "success is going from failure to failure with enthusiasm"
Somehow I lost my Guthington profile, but it's me. Amy Wethington = Guthington = Physa

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 2:07 pm
Todd Jones, Anna X, Cherrie and 3 people reacted
christopher Robinson
(@chriscrob)
New Member
 
Posted by: @physa

My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails.

So it's too soon to give up hope on a second phone call? 

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 2:48 pm
Anna X
(@annax)
Bronze Star Member
 

I have a question. Does anyone know what the average length that WotF publishes? I know they accept up to 17k words, but from all the finalists and winners, what’s your average word count for those entries?

I know some publishers state they’ll accept like 10k words, but they’d prefer anything under 5k. What does WotF prefer for finalists and winners?

Thanks!

~ I honestly believe that good stories write themselves. You can always start writing a story, but the characters tell their own tales and if you're lucky enough, you get to merely be in the audience watching everything unfold. ~ 8/1/2022
***
WotF - 2022, V39 Q4: submitted

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 3:56 pm
Cherrie
(@clfors)
Silver Member
 

@annax The average for winning stories is ~7,500 but you can win at any length within the limits. Some judges prefer longer because it allows for more world building but most winning stories do not skirt the 17,000 upper limit. 

3x Finalist Illustrators
3x Semi finalist Illustrators
1x HM Illustrators
6x HM Writers
https://clforsauthor.com
Author of the Primogenitor series: Progeny, Adaptation, Reunion Available on Amazon under CL Fors

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 4:24 pm
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
Gold Star Member
 
Posted by: @annax

I have a question. Does anyone know what the average length that WotF publishes? I know they accept up to 17k words, but from all the finalists and winners, what’s your average word count for those entries?

I know some publishers state they’ll accept like 10k words, but they’d prefer anything under 5k. What does WotF prefer for finalists and winners?

Thanks!

A great example of a longer story that won is "Lilt of a Lark" by Michael Panter in Volume 38. It goes right up against the 17k cut off, but when you're reading it the words just fly by. It's one of my favorites in this volume. But most stories are closer to 5-7k. Personally I try to keep stories there because that means there are other markets for them - the stories that get longer than 7.5k have very few markets aside from WotF to try them at.

 

For data my finalists were 5k, 8k, and 8k - and it was the 5k story that was a published finalist.

V34: R,HM,R
V35: HM,R,R,HM
V36: R,HM,HM,SHM
V37: HM,SF,SHM,SHM
V38: (P)F, SHM, F, F
V39: SHM, SHM, HM, P
Always Available for 5-page Critiques
CV & Editing Services: www.rebeccaetreasure.com
Reviews & Short Stories: www.patreon.com/rebeccaetreasure

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 4:36 pm
Wahlquistj, crlisle, David Hankins and 2 people reacted
LambentTyto
(@lambenttyto)
Advanced Member
 

To add to the conversation, I believe it was Kevin J. Anderson specifically who said that if he has a choice between choosing a shorter story and a longer one, he would choose the longer story for the reason that he believes such writes want to go on to write novels and earn a living. He explained more of his reasoning behind it in a podcast I believe which is somewhere on the WotF website, but I'm not sure where.

On another note, I really wish they would reveal the number of entrants for each quarter. It's been previously said that the WotF doesn't want to discourage new entrants from participating by intimidating them with submission counts, but seeing as how this comp is the largest one in the world for unpublished writers (this is still true, is it not?), I don't see why that would matter.

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 7:54 pm
Cherrie, David Hankins, Anna X and 1 people reacted
Anna X
(@annax)
Bronze Star Member
 

@lambenttyto 

I had never written a short story until my entry this quarter. I have always just written novels. I find them easier, actually. You have the space to expand on conflicts and ideas, for multiple characters and many adventures. Short stories, I think are harder because you have less room for error and you’ve got to have all the necessary components of a novel in a compact form. But short story is fitting for some things. I’ve got two short horrors I’m writing. I don’t know how to make the two horror shorts into novels because it’s not really a novel kind of story. I think I’m learning that short stories are like episodes of tv. One of my favorite shows is Supernatural, so I think of a short story as Sam and Dean on a hunt with a different monster. 😆

~ I honestly believe that good stories write themselves. You can always start writing a story, but the characters tell their own tales and if you're lucky enough, you get to merely be in the audience watching everything unfold. ~ 8/1/2022
***
WotF - 2022, V39 Q4: submitted

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 8:11 pm
Martin L. Shoemaker
(@martin-l-shoemaker)
Platinum Plus Moderator
 
Posted by: @chriscrob
Posted by: @physa

My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails.

So it's too soon to give up hope on a second phone call? 

If you receive the first call, you always receive a second call. Sadly, five out of eight second calls are the bad news.

http://nineandsixtyways.com/
Tools, Not Rules.
Martin L. Shoemaker
3rd Place Q1 V31
"Today I Am Paul", WSFA Small Press Award 2015, Nebula nomination 2015
Today I Am Carey from Baen
The Last Dance (#1 science fiction eBook on Amazon, October 2019) and The Last Campaign from 47North

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 8:23 pm
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Moderator
 
Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker
Posted by: @chriscrob
Posted by: @physa

My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails.

So it's too soon to give up hope on a second phone call? 

If you receive the first call, you always receive a second call. Sadly, five out of eight second calls are the bad news.

True. Unless you're Leah Ning. She only received the second call, but it was her first! And was told by Joni she had won. But that was an anomaly, so don't count on that. Smile But it does save all that two-week worrying as final decisions are made! 

Click here to JOIN THE WULF PACK!
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" won Best SFF Story of 2019! Read it in WotF, Volume 35. Order HERE!
"Muzik Man" won Best SFF Story of 2020! Read it in Best of Deep Magic Anthology Two!
You know WotF Workshop's 24-hour story exercise? Want to see what I wrote? Just awarded Best All Other Short Stories of 2021! Read in THINGS WITH FEATHERS. Order HERE!
Enjoy my award-winning SUPER SECRETS of Writing articles! FREE to read in every issue of DreamForge Anvil! Don't miss Best Positive Future Story of 2021: "Shaken, Not Stirred." FREE! Click HERE!

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 8:43 pm
Cray Dimensional
(@craydimensional)
Gold Member
 

[checks email. Alas there is a personal rejection from another publisher on different story. Wonders if this will be double Thursday, today]
[Surprisingly not at all upset, there was good info in there]
[Now going to grab a latte]

Small steps add up to miles.
V38: R, R, HM, HM
V39: RWC, HM, HM
"Amore For Life" in After the Gold Rush Third Flatiron Anthologies

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 9:41 pm
Cherrie and Anna X reacted
christopher Robinson
(@chriscrob)
New Member
 

@craydimensional I am feeling exactly that exact feeling right now.  😓 

Screen Shot 2022 08 08 at 6.26.48 PM

 

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 10:28 pm
KD Julicher
(@kd-julicher)
Bronze Star Member
 
Posted by: @physa

 

Really glad I attended Moon's Flow state webinar this past weekend. I liked the longer, four hour session better than the rushed 1.5 hour one. My main take away is just how damaging interruptions are. I'm glad it's not just me that has to work hard to get back into flow state after being interrupted

Just remember, don't despair that you can't write anything without four hour stretches of uninterrupted quiet. I'm sitting here hacking a novel together a few hundred words at a time, while dealing with kids, work, house stuff, etc. It's tedious and I long for the days when I could write 10k in a sitting, but word by word I'm building the story.

 

Can't believe you guys are still waiting. Best wishes!

WOTF: HM x 16, SHMx2, SF x 1, F V31 Q3, V32 Q2, V32 Q4, V34 Q3, V36 Q1
Baen Fantasy Award Winner 2014
V32 Published Finalist
3rd place V37 Q1!

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 10:39 pm
Cherrie, Morgan, David Hankins and 4 people reacted
MarathonCoder
(@chwalter)
Bronze Star Member
 

I'll ask my boys if I can invite guests into their pillow fort.  Chin up everyone, it's Thursday (again).

DSCN0778

 

V38: HM, R, R, HM
V39: RWC, HM, P, WIP

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 10:49 pm
christopher Robinson
(@chriscrob)
New Member
 
Posted by: @annax

I had never written a short story until my entry this quarter.

I submitted the first short story I ever wrote this quarter!

This post was modified 2 months ago by christopher Robinson
 
Posted : August 8, 2022 10:52 pm
R.W.Ware, Morgan, David Hankins and 2 people reacted
Cray Dimensional
(@craydimensional)
Gold Member
 

@chriscrob One step at a time. Rejection is part of the process.

Small steps add up to miles.
V38: R, R, HM, HM
V39: RWC, HM, HM
"Amore For Life" in After the Gold Rush Third Flatiron Anthologies

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 10:56 pm
Anna X
(@annax)
Bronze Star Member
 
Posted by: @chriscrob
I submitted the first short story I ever wrote this quarter!

Yay! For first times! 

I mean, we can hope it is the last time 😁, but chances are, we’ll write more and more and we’ll get better at it. It’s good practice.

Question: How long did some of you winners take to get to being a winner? I’ve watched the forum signatures and I’m really proud of all the people who have been at it for a while. You all deserve props for not giving up! 

~ I honestly believe that good stories write themselves. You can always start writing a story, but the characters tell their own tales and if you're lucky enough, you get to merely be in the audience watching everything unfold. ~ 8/1/2022
***
WotF - 2022, V39 Q4: submitted

 
Posted : August 8, 2022 11:02 pm
R.W.Ware, storysinger, David Hankins and 1 people reacted
LambentTyto
(@lambenttyto)
Advanced Member
 
Posted by: @annax

I had never written a short story until my entry this quarter.

Nice! It reminds me of my first submission. I got an HM. That was awesome. I hope you get good news. That's a good way to think of short stories. Myself, I don't really write them. I like the novelette, because you can tell a fuller story with a beginning, middle and end.

This post was modified 2 months ago by LambentTyto
 
Posted : August 9, 2022 2:17 am
David Hankins and Anna X reacted
Anna X
(@annax)
Bronze Star Member
 
Posted by: @lambenttyto
Nice! It reminds me of my first submission. I got an HM. That was awesome. I hope you get good news. That's a good way to think of short stories. Myself, I don't really write them. I like the novelette, because you can tell a fuller story with a beginning, middle and end.

Thank you! I hope I get good news too. But I also hope you're entering too! You should!

I agree. I like the novelettes too. I find that I say way too much, and I haven't found a good way to learn to cut out unnecessary words yet.

~ I honestly believe that good stories write themselves. You can always start writing a story, but the characters tell their own tales and if you're lucky enough, you get to merely be in the audience watching everything unfold. ~ 8/1/2022
***
WotF - 2022, V39 Q4: submitted

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 2:21 am
LambentTyto
(@lambenttyto)
Advanced Member
 
Posted by: @annax

But I also hope you're entering too!

I have. I'm kind of expecting a rejection, despite thinking this is a rather well written story of mine. But I wrote it in... an interesting way, let's just say. I don't cut out unnecessary words. They're part of my authorial voice. I think people tend to forget that prose is a medium of words, of voice and personality of the author as well as the character, not just necessarily an invisible vehicle to deliver story. I used to prefer invisible prose, but after writing over a million words, I'm bored with that, lol.

This post was modified 2 months ago by LambentTyto
 
Posted : August 9, 2022 6:51 am
R.W.Ware, Cherrie, Anna X and 2 people reacted
Dustin Adams
(@axeminister)
Gold Star Member
Topic starter
 
Posted by: @wulfmoon

But it does save all that two-week worrying as final decisions are made! 

Two weeks? Phsaw - back when I was a finalist, I had to wait six!

That might have been back before the Internet, though... (Actually, it was a paper sub.)

2x Finalist
2x Semi
8x Silver
10x HM
Finalist #2 Read it here!

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 9:06 am
Henckel, Wulf Moon, Anna X and 1 people reacted
Martin L. Shoemaker
(@martin-l-shoemaker)
Platinum Plus Moderator
 
Posted by: @lambenttyto
Posted by: @annax

But I also hope you're entering too!

I have. I'm kind of expecting a rejection, despite thinking this is a rather well written story of mine. But I wrote it in... an interesting way, let's just say. I don't cut out unnecessary words. They're part of my authorial voice. I think people tend to forget that prose is a medium of words, of voice and personality of the author as well as the character, not just necessarily an invisible vehicle to deliver story. I used to prefer invisible prose, but after writing over a million words, I'm bored with that, lol.

Every editor will tell you that what they most want is a unique voice.

Some editors will also tell you to cut, cut, cut, with newspaper terseness.

They cannot see the contradiction here. They're cutting voice.

http://nineandsixtyways.com/
Tools, Not Rules.
Martin L. Shoemaker
3rd Place Q1 V31
"Today I Am Paul", WSFA Small Press Award 2015, Nebula nomination 2015
Today I Am Carey from Baen
The Last Dance (#1 science fiction eBook on Amazon, October 2019) and The Last Campaign from 47North

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 10:42 am
Cherrie
(@clfors)
Silver Member
 

@kd-julicher yes! This! I love when I can get away to write for longer chunks but I have four kids and my husband has two jobs outside of our writing so much of my writing happens in small chunks. For years I was writing one-handed while nursing babies so it can be done, and sometimes it’s either that or no writing at all.

3x Finalist Illustrators
3x Semi finalist Illustrators
1x HM Illustrators
6x HM Writers
https://clforsauthor.com
Author of the Primogenitor series: Progeny, Adaptation, Reunion Available on Amazon under CL Fors

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 2:49 pm
Wahlquistj reacted
Cherrie
(@clfors)
Silver Member
 

@martin-l-shoemaker I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I don’t enjoy writing without room for voice and honestly I don’t enjoy reading stories that are so tightly edited that I can’t feel the author’s voice. I read for tasty words as much as for story.

3x Finalist Illustrators
3x Semi finalist Illustrators
1x HM Illustrators
6x HM Writers
https://clforsauthor.com
Author of the Primogenitor series: Progeny, Adaptation, Reunion Available on Amazon under CL Fors

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 2:52 pm
Cherrie
(@clfors)
Silver Member
 

@lambenttyto I agree with you on the importance of unique prose and the author’s voice.

3x Finalist Illustrators
3x Semi finalist Illustrators
1x HM Illustrators
6x HM Writers
https://clforsauthor.com
Author of the Primogenitor series: Progeny, Adaptation, Reunion Available on Amazon under CL Fors

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 2:54 pm
Wahlquistj
(@wahlquistj)
Bronze Member
 
Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker
Posted by: @lambenttyto
Posted by: @annax

But I also hope you're entering too!

I have. I'm kind of expecting a rejection, despite thinking this is a rather well written story of mine. But I wrote it in... an interesting way, let's just say. I don't cut out unnecessary words. They're part of my authorial voice. I think people tend to forget that prose is a medium of words, of voice and personality of the author as well as the character, not just necessarily an invisible vehicle to deliver story. I used to prefer invisible prose, but after writing over a million words, I'm bored with that, lol.

Every editor will tell you that what they most want is a unique voice.

Some editors will also tell you to cut, cut, cut, with newspaper terseness.

They cannot see the contradiction here. They're cutting voice.

I agree with @clfors, I enjoy tasty words. To me, the author’s voice is as important as any other part of the book. At the same time, I’ve been enjoying making my writing ‘tighter’, shuffling the building blocks of sentences around to create the most empathy in the least amount of space.

V33- SF
V38- SHM, HM
V39- HM,P

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 3:21 pm
storysinger, Anna X, Cherrie and 1 people reacted
Yelena
(@scribblesatdusk)
Silver Member
 

I personally wish more people would submit on the shorter side to make room for more published finalists.

V36:Q3 HM V37: Q3 R, Q4 SHM V38: R,HM, F, HM V39: HM, SHM, ?

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 3:54 pm
Henckel, Wulf Moon, Dustin Adams and 2 people reacted
John Mabey
(@jmabey)
Advanced Member
 

I’m sitting here (like the rest of you) writing and trying to not think about how long it’s taking to get results; when something I hadn’t thought of, hit me.

Martin eluded to it but I’m too slow to pick up on it. I think things (contest results) are in the state they’re in because we JUST lost another very important author in the writing community. Not more than just three weeks ago; Eric Flint passed away.

Now, I didn’t know Eric personally but I know many of his colleagues and they loved him. Losing Eric is ANOTHER heavy loss for everyone and I don’t doubt the profound effect it must have on our judges.

To that end I apologize for any impatience I might’ve shown here. As one who didn’t know Eric, it was lost on me the kind of grief many are feeling.

To Kary, Jody, Joni, and anyone else at WOTF who may be mourning; please take your time. I am deeply sorry for your loss.

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 4:14 pm
Physa/ Guthington/ Amy
(@physa)
Silver Star Member
 

[peeks into pillow fort]

[lights another candle for the recently fallen]

[kneels down to pray]

[a crescendo of refresh clicks fills the air]

[wipes fresh tears from my eyes]

[another long day, I expect]

WOTF results:
Before Moon's Vol 39 challenge, 6 R's: Vol 31 Q3, Vol 33 Q3, Vol 35, Q4, Vol 37 Q3 and Q4, and Vol 38 Q3.
For Moon's Vol 39 challenge:
Q1 RWC, Q2 HM, Q3 HM, Q4 in progress...
IOTF results:
Vol 39: Q1 HM, Q2 R, Q3 P, Q4 P
According to Winston Churchill, "success is going from failure to failure with enthusiasm"
Somehow I lost my Guthington profile, but it's me. Amy Wethington = Guthington = Physa

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 4:30 pm
Cherrie
(@clfors)
Silver Member
 

@wahlquistj I’ve also been working on that in my editing because we are always building our skill and craft, yes? Ever students of the written word! I like how you put that. I’ve called it economical writing but I blame my business degree on that phrasing 😂 You’ve done the concept much more justice.

3x Finalist Illustrators
3x Semi finalist Illustrators
1x HM Illustrators
6x HM Writers
https://clforsauthor.com
Author of the Primogenitor series: Progeny, Adaptation, Reunion Available on Amazon under CL Fors

 
Posted : August 9, 2022 4:31 pm
Anna X reacted
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