Can I plagiarize my own material?

I don't see why not. I believe DF turned his winning story for this contest into a novel and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples like that one.

Thousands of examples. Ender's Game started as a short. Flowers for Algernon started as a short. Martin is just turning his Clarkesworld short Today I Am Paul into a novel.

I can't think of a flash turned into a short--which arguably compete more than shorts v novels--but chances are it would take you longer than the exclusivity of a published flash piece (4 months at DSF, 6 months at FFO forex) to write and sell a longer version anyway.

People write stories inspired by others all the time. The same ideas are examined over and over by authors (so many "we live in a simulation" stories at Nature!). You could write a short inspired by someone else's flash, you can sure as shit write a story inspired by your own, and re-use characters, setting, whatever you like

Thousands of examples. Ender's Game started as a short. Flowers for Algernon started as a short. Martin is just turning his Clarkesworld short Today I Am Paul into a novel.

I can't think of a flash turned into a short--which arguably compete more than shorts v novels--but chances are it would take you longer than the exclusivity of a published flash piece (4 months at DSF, 6 months at FFO forex) to write and sell a longer version anyway.

People write stories inspired by others all the time. The same ideas are examined over and over by authors (so many "we live in a simulation" stories at Nature!). You could write a short inspired by someone else's flash, you can sure as shit write a story inspired by your own, and re-use characters, setting, whatever you like

Oops. Guess I'm finally coming back around to this conversation again. I guess I'm more concerned about publishers getting touchy about it, especially if I want to reuse a scene or some lines. Would that come off as tactless?

v33: Q3 - R; Q4 - R
v34: Q1 - R; Q2 - SECOND PLACE! Q3 - HM (oops...?)
http://www.amyhenriegillett.com

 

Thousands of examples. Ender's Game started as a short. Flowers for Algernon started as a short. Martin is just turning his Clarkesworld short Today I Am Paul into a novel.

I can't think of a flash turned into a short--which arguably compete more than shorts v novels--but chances are it would take you longer than the exclusivity of a published flash piece (4 months at DSF, 6 months at FFO forex) to write and sell a longer version anyway.

People write stories inspired by others all the time. The same ideas are examined over and over by authors (so many "we live in a simulation" stories at Nature!). You could write a short inspired by someone else's flash, you can sure as shit write a story inspired by your own, and re-use characters, setting, whatever you like

Oops. Guess I'm finally coming back around to this conversation again. I guess I'm more concerned about publishers getting touchy about it, especially if I want to reuse a scene or some lines. Would that come off as tactless?

If you're outside the exclusivity period, it doesn't matter. They might get iffy if you have something substantially similar published within that 3-/6-/12-month period, but the odds of that seem pretty low anyway, given the speed publishing moves at

Golden Pen winner v32 (2016)
Stories | About | Facebook | Twitter

 

I included expanded versions of two previous short stories in my most recent book.

unless it's a scholarly article, it's fine.

Plagiarism is, generally, use of someone else's intellectual effort, material, and work and representing it as one's own. If a story is under copyright, publication rights in particular, and licensed to a publisher, and a closely derivative work is published in quick or simultaneous succession as well, then publisher rights' copyright infringement might be a consideration. Many digest publications acquire exclusive publication rights for a limited time span, often a one-year term, generally, then allow for subsequent reprints with suitable acknowledgement of first publication.

The given what-if supposition fits that latter scenario. For scholastic work, self-plagiarism is when a student represents and submits work from other papers as original work that is substantively the same content, like from one class or course's assignment for another class or course's assignment, and is subject to similar consequences as outright plagiarism if discovered: a do-over and grade reduction at least, failed assignment or course grade, honor code violation and sanctions, dismissal from the course or class, expulsion from college.

Thanks, orbivillein. Apparently, I didn't know my terminology. I was referring to copyright infringement. I'm aware of the exclusivity clauses. I'm curious though, if I expand a short story into a novel but retain some of the scenes exactly, would a potential publisher be concerned about that material even after exclusivity has elapsed for the short story?

Back when digest publishers bought and registered perpetual copyrights to their respective houses, and not under writers' copyrights, pre the 1976 Copyright Act and subsequent copyright acts, digest publishers delighted if a book publisher published a given digest's short story writer's derivative novel. Free publicity, advertisement, and promotion accrue for a digest in the form of first publication acknowledgments and claim to "discovery" of a writer for the prestige. Gradually, since then, more and more, now maybe most, writers retain copyright, even if a publisher registers the copyright and pays the fees, and writers then contract for specific use license options with publishers.

The acknowledgment practice continues, though a mite less common and ever more uncommon now than before. Some or many digest and book publication contracts now include a strongly worded acknowledgment request clause -- back when taken as a by-default given now must be expressly expressed within a publication contract. More and more publishers adopt that clause, for its sound business sense at no cost to a publisher, nor added revenue or costs for a writer, either, at least not direct benefits. Perhaps indirect benefits and good will accrue to all concerned, though.

A conscientious writer would deign to accept such an acknowledgment clause and bargain for a publisher concession quid pro quo -- not for a first-time short story publication contract, per se, for a next unsolicited or later solicited submission contract, after the writer has a leg to stand on of a proven revenue producer. For example, a writer's first invitation right of an original solicited submission for a subsequent edition or publication, an original content anthology or special edition, perhaps, and, of course, the publisher's right of first refusal.

Since all of the above became somewhat standard publication business model options, publishers developed a wariness of derivative works over which they have little, if any, legal, contractual control, for a self-derivative work that might reflect negatively upon a prior publisher, maybe.

A writer's best practice for the self's derivative works is effective communication: Notify a first publisher of a soon to debut novel derivative of the short story; maybe timely offer or provide annotated excerpts from the novel, the latter if requested; notify of and include a respectful acknowledgment of first publication, as determined to be published, within the novel's pages, more or less a bibliographic cite, less formal than for a research paper; communicate a sincere thank you and praise of the first-publication digest's activities on one's behalf and others in general, though, actually, additionally, a self-promotion strategy; and in no way anytime or anywhere in a public speech, print, or online disparage or otherwise comment negatively about the first-publication digest publisher. These principles avoid litigation snarls and are the practices of responsible professionals. Those also apply to a self-published derivative work.

If events do take a nasty turn, due to publisher concerns about excerpts from a first publication carried over to a self-derivative novel, regardless of whether identical or substantively revised, and a writer conducts professional business, tough luck for the first-publication publisher. The copyright is a writer's rights anymore, except for a few digest publishers that buy a short-work manuscript's rights entire, even the right to change the writer byline to whomever else's name the house deigns.

The former, the tough luck occasion, unfortunately, that house might be a bridge burnt. Then quietly let it alone and move on to brighter and livelier, responsible professionals. We who follow will know and not speak out of school about the burnt house, probably take our wallets and pens elsewhere; no one else will care.

I think the pay rates might be another consideration for short fiction. Even if you have the rights back already or only published on your blog, if you sell a story with that material in it you're technically reprinting it. You could make the argument that it's a new piece of work, but some editors might think you're just trying to get new pay on old work.

Scalables is the publication business model principle of resales and optional subsidiary rights placements, as much a facet for writers' considerations as publishers and agents'. Digest reprints and book anthologies might earn and, therefore, pay more than a first-publication sale. Might not. Short story collections are another resale practice. Scholastic readers, anthology omnibuses used for literature courses, also resell a first publication. Not to mention, copyright clearinghouses, course pack copy shops, and serial publication content distributors collect limited-use license fees, grant such licenses for excerpt reprints on behalf of copyright holders, and remit distributed revenues to copyright holders.

Scalables is the publication business model principle of resales and optional subsidiary rights placements, as much a facet for writers' considerations as publishers and agents'. Digest reprints and book anthologies might earn and, therefore, pay more than a first-publication sale. Might not. Short story collections are another resale practice. Scholastic readers, anthology omnibuses used for literature courses, also resell a first publication. Not to mention, copyright clearinghouses, course pack copy shops, and serial publication content distributors collect limited-use license fees, grant such licenses for excerpt reprints on behalf of copyright holders, and remit distributed revenues to copyright holders.

Orbivillein -- I bet you could make a KILLING writing contracts and other legal documents yourself!

~Morgan

Scalables is the publication business model principle of resales and optional subsidiary rights placements, as much a facet for writers' considerations as publishers and agents'. Digest reprints and book anthologies might earn and, therefore, pay more than a first-publication sale. Might not. Short story collections are another resale practice. Scholastic readers, anthology omnibuses used for literature courses, also resell a first publication. Not to mention, copyright clearinghouses, course pack copy shops, and serial publication content distributors collect limited-use license fees, grant such licenses for excerpt reprints on behalf of copyright holders, and remit distributed revenues to copyright holders.

I'm not saying don't reprint - you should sell your work as many times and in as many ways as possible. I'm just agreeing that you have to be upfront about it, and that might cause problems in the original poster's case of scaling a flash piece to a short story. Most markets pay half rate for reprints, if they accept reprints at all, and I suspect most would just reject a combo piece rather than try to figure out how much should be paid at which rate. Of course, there are always exceptions, but I personally would just avoid it and write new material. Writing in the same universe is great, adapting a piece for different media (ie, short story to novel) is great, but I think flash to short story is gonna be a tougher sell.

Scalables is the publication business model principle of resales and optional subsidiary rights placements, as much a facet for writers' considerations as publishers and agents'. Digest reprints and book anthologies might earn and, therefore, pay more than a first-publication sale. Might not. Short story collections are another resale practice. Scholastic readers, anthology omnibuses used for literature courses, also resell a first publication. Not to mention, copyright clearinghouses, course pack copy shops, and serial publication content distributors collect limited-use license fees, grant such licenses for excerpt reprints on behalf of copyright holders, and remit distributed revenues to copyright holders.

Orbivillein -- I bet you could make a KILLING writing contracts and other legal documents yourself!

~Morgan

Though formal and informal student of intellectual property law -- not a lawyer, I am an editor, who need know at least to consult legal counsel -- might prompt a bullet point or two for writer, editor, agent, and publisher negotiation and contract considerations.

Orbivillein, if I understand correctly, what you're saying is the common practice (no longer the legal practice?) for a novel derivative of a shorter work is to include an acknowledgement thanking the first publisher, but because the rights for the shorter work have reverted back to the author (assuming the contractual time frame has elapsed), the author is not legally bound to the first publisher.

That still doesn't quite answer my question though. When selling a novel derivative manuscript, will an editor care if it is a novel derivative containing content already published in a shorter work? I know novel derivatives are common enough (Martin Shoemaker's soon-to-be-published "Today I Am Carey," for example), but would it matter if the first chapters of his novel were "Today I Am Paul"?

Perhaps that is what vjalrik was talking about? Basically, if it has enough new content and exclusivity has elapsed, an editor isn't going to care its a derivative.

Orbivillein, if I understand correctly, what you're saying is the common practice (no longer the legal practice?) for a novel derivative of a shorter work is to include an acknowledgement thanking the first publisher, but because the rights for the shorter work have reverted back to the author (assuming the contractual time frame has elapsed), the author is not legally bound to the first publisher.

That still doesn't quite answer my question though. When selling a novel derivative manuscript, will an editor care if it is a novel derivative containing content already published in a shorter work? I know novel derivatives are common enough (Martin Shoemaker's soon-to-be-published "Today I Am Carey," for example), but would it matter if the first chapters of his novel were "Today I Am Paul"?

Acknowledgment practice used to be by default and unstated. Publishers used to own most or all of a short story's copyrights, so they practiced self-beneficial marketing. Anymore, the trend is toward more and more contractual request inclusion, now that writers own copyrights and license options. Acknowledgments evolved from a common-courtesy practice to now a legal practice, though still by request, not a mandate.

Any given acquisition editor or publisher probably will consider acceptance of a self-derivative novel; no absolutes, though. Some will balk, foremost due to revenue performance considerations and next-most due to timeliness, freshness, and name-recognition considerations that support revenue performance. Those regardless of if a self-derivative novel is substantively fresh or not. Note that motion picture novelizations are derivative and all too often written by flacks: dilutions, capture only what a motion picture can show -- very little, if any, internal action -- written word's strength contrasted to audio-visual media.

If a writer's first short story published, say, in 2018, the same writer published no other works in the interim, and, say, a finalized novel derivative is accepted in 2020, slated for a 2022 debut, the prior writer name and publication recognition might have lapsed.

Two years from acceptance to publication debut is an industry standard. Average experienced writer time expended per novel spans six months to two years full-time work, and, otherwise common, ten or more years between novels. First-time novelists' expended times range from an uncommon low four months -- not to be identified here (dreck) -- to ten-plus years, and a year or more plus common for writer-publisher pre-publication editorial correspondence and self-marketing development.

An overall dedicated fiction writer average time expended per published word, novel or short story, is about one word per two minutes. Thirty words an hour? (Median pro market rate $0.15 per word? $4.50 per hour.) Pray, bargain -- strive for a blockbuster novel breakout and huge payoff!

Good or best writer career practice to develop an inventory of several projects of several lengths at various stages of finish? Uh-huh! The short stories -- those are self-marketing strategies for the novels. Many are the career-ambitious writers who first debut one short story and its recognition evaporates before a next project places. Stutter starts. And biggest writers' bummer.

Two years from acceptance to publication debut is an industry standard. Average experienced writer time expended per novel spans six months to two years full-time work, and, otherwise common, ten or more years between novels. First-time novelists' expended times range from an uncommon low four months -- not to be identified here (dreck) -- to ten-plus years, and a year or more plus common for writer-publisher pre-publication editorial correspondence and self-marketing development.

I hadn't thought about that and what implications it has for derivative writing. Even just the standard two-year wait for publication would nullify a lot of the anticipation created by the original story unless the writer has other works to publish in the meantime to maintain consumer interest (as you said).

The workshop definitely hits hard on the fact that short stories are not a sustainable career. This is a tangential question, but how important do you think a "following" is to an editor? I've seen proposals that leave a section for "author marketing" so I know it's important, but how important?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions, by the way. Your answers are very informative on many levels. It reminds me of the workshop where I'm both fascinated and somewhat overwhelmed.

Followers are an important indication of future revenue performance and a practical measure of a writer's appeal reach. Say a writer publishes and lives in a region where the local newspaper circulates a fiction story to twenty thousand subscribers, newspaper readership, the community populace is eighty thousand, the story is well received. Scaled to a larger market, say, country- or worldwide? An average novel, derivative or otherwise, by that writer is worth the resource risk for a bare minimum two-thousand impression first print run.

Sold through within a one-year season, that two thousand sales is a reasonable debut novel performance. Trade bestseller lists track quarterly sales estimates month by month and as often as week by week. An off-season bestseller might net twenty-thousand copy sales from a debut quarter. A prime-season bestseller could run to a million copies or more. Average overall bestseller performance is more often in the hundred thousand copy range. Prime season is the early fall run-up to New Year's. Winter is the slump season; spring season, somewhat stronger; summer, second strongest season.

Worth note, too, few top-market book publishers accept unagented novel submissions anymore. Fortunately, the Big Four science fiction and fantasy book publishers still do. Unsolicited novel submission package content and guidelines vary. Note also, the Big Four are subsidiary imprints of the Big Five global publisher conglomerates, the latter themselves parent company or divisions of global media conglomerates:

Baen Books (Simon & Schuster imprint)
Tor and Forge (Holtzbrinck Publishing Group/Macmillan imprints)
DAW (Penguin Random House imprint)
Pyr (relative newcomer, 2005, imprint of Prometheus Books, Penguin Random House "partner")

Georg von Holtzbrinck Publishing Group/Macmillan (Germany, Britain)
Hachette (publisher) (Lagardère Group, France)
HarperCollins (News Corp, Britain)
Penguin Random House (Bertelsmann, and Pearson PLC; Germany, Britain)
Simon & Schuster (CBS Corporation, U.S.)

For other top-market novel imprint placements, an agent representation is all but required. Most U.S. agents headquarter in and around New York City. For the past seventy-five years, literary agents more and more assumed book submission screening, some advance editorial correspondence, and boosted their commission fees from ten percent of writer revenue to as high as thirty percent.

For next-tier novel publishers who accept unagented submissions, spans any from mid- and small-sized, standalone houses, to guerilla independents, writer-conglomerate self-publishers who consider outsider submissions, to vanity houses who publish any work outside-financed regardless of quality.

Back in the mid-'50s, about six hundred standalone book publishers practiced the trade. The ones still viable after the '60s through '90s technology and culture tumults were mostly agglomerated by the Big Five. Today, several thousand reputable and active next-tier, standalone publishers compete, like Davids before Goliaths. Otherwise, several hundred thousand trade-registered publishers hold out shingles -- many forager-predators among the many.

That standard two-year wait is one year of writer and publisher part-time correspondence elapsed and one year house advance publication activity, of which a writer has little, if any, notice or contribution.

Back in the mid-'50s, about six hundred standalone book publishers practiced the trade. The ones still viable after the '60s through '90s technology and culture tumults were mostly agglomerated by the Big Five. Today, several thousand reputable and active next-tier, standalone publishers compete, like Davids before Goliaths. Otherwise, several hundred thousand trade-registered publishers hold out shingles -- many forager-predators among the many.

I talked to a few authors about this new structure to the industry. Dave's of the opinion that as self-publishing becomes more commonplace and lucrative (assuming self-publishing writers find a way out from under a entity's thumb), traditional publishing houses will become a thing of the past. When I asked Sanderson about it, he felt the current structure would very likely stabilized and become the long-term state of market. He explained that New York still revolved around bestsellers. They give someone with potential a shot; if they perform, awesome, but if not, New York lets them go. Then said author usually turns to indie or self-publishing, hopefully taking a contingent of their following with them. Feels like a "major leagues" and "minor leagues" scenario. Having a following then, is like having excellent college stats.

Another question for you: how do advances work? Authors throw the word "advance" around like it's just a paycheck, but is it? The word "advance" makes it sound like a loan.

*Casually name drops Sanderson*

The bane of self-publication is a dearth of competent composition aptitude and editorial correspondence adjustment thereof. Not that the publication industry anymore exercises as much editorial input as in the past. The onus shifted elsewhere, somewhat to agents, somewhat to freelance editors, several other elsewheres, though publishers do recommend outside editors prior to final acceptance if a project falls short of a minimum house standard. Standards vary from house to house. The tedious chore no one really wants to do and all want to pass on to others.

Traditional publication is in chaos and flux -- far from Death's door. The industry's global economy amounts to tens of billions of dollars annually. No publisher wants the fattened calf slaughtered and squandered.

The full term for writer advance is advance against royalties. An advance is a contract-signing advance. An advance is non-refundable, except for cause and consequent litigation. Advances usually pay out through two installments, one at contract signing and one subsequent to a publication debut date. Allow six to eight or more weeks for "processing." The advance practice is a publisher, writer, and agent, if one, negotiate an up-front payment of anticipated royalties. Little more than practiced guesswork and somewhat informed gambles-- how many copies will sell in a given, future time span. Then an advance is negotiated, agreed to, or declined, and so contracted.

Few first-novel writers are offered an advance. The standard anticipation is a minimum two-thousand copy sell-through, half of royalties paid in advance of sales, minus a forty percent reserve against remaindered returns. Hardcover rough royalty estimate is about $1.00 gross writer royalty per sale. About $0.65 per trade paperback, and $0.35 per mass market paperback.

Anymore, a conservative first-time novel debut publishes direct to trade paperback or mass market paperback, skips hardcover release. Royalties for digital publication are still in flux and all over creation, from house to house, writer to writer, agent to agent, if one, and novel to novel. An average per copy royalty for a novel that sequences from hardcover to trade paperback to mass market paperback is $0.50 per final sale. Other factors influence royalty, too, whether a copy sale is trade wholesale, trade retail, library wholesale or retail, book club discount, publisher retail, and so on. Royalties are assessed for publisher revenue, not distributor nor bookseller.

Proven revenue performers might negotiate a lower reserve against returns, as low as twenty-five percent. Remainders are copies distributed to booksellers that didn't sell within the bookseller's stock retention period and were "returned." That remainder return practice is rife with corruption and another discussion.

First novel, though, two thousand sales anticipated, best advance payout expectable, in two installments, about $500 total, for a house rounded-down number. First novels, though, generally garner no advance, and few result in reprints. Royalty statement periods range from quarterly the first season to annually. Publication contracts dictate royalty statement and payout schedule, plus, a minimum payout threshold, usually around $50 to $200.

Sky-high advances are publication apocrypha legend. Some earn-out their advances within a first or second year, some eventually, after several years or more, perhaps from subsidiary rights sales, motion picture options and rights, for example. Some do not earn out. Creative nonfiction books tend to fall shorter for earn-out than novels.

The most infamous novel advance to date is Charles Frazier's for Thirteen Moons, 2006, of $8.5 million, sold only half of the 750,000 first print run its debut year, and earned Random House only about $3.5 million gross revenue all told. Frazier was not required to rebate any of the advance.

That anecdote resulted in global resistance to high advances for novels and Frazier's constructive dismissal from future publication consideration and any advance. Blackballed. Plus, heads rolled at the publisher. Frazier's agent fared poorly, too. Too much of the novel's content is sub-subliminal subtext and not enough superliminal hypertext for to meet the runaway revenue performance of Cold Mountain, 1997.

A prudent writer would be well advised to consider that novel anecdote's cautionary lessons. However, advance payment for writer nonperfomance is a widespread pox on the culture. Another discussion, that. A more prudent first-time novelist or agent on the writer's behalf might accept a median, lower, or no advance against royalties and negotiate a scaled-tier royalty schedule instead. First two thousand copies, 10 percent standard; a twenty thousand-copy milestone, 12 percent; one hundred thousand, 15 percent, and so on. Maybe negotiate a more rapid statement and payout schedule, too, at least quarterly for up to two years. Plus, negotiate a lower reserve percentage against returns.

Actual average return is about thirty percent, some novels higher, some lower. Twenty percent is rock bottom, eighty percent or more high. A comprehensive quarterly statement invoices copies placed for wholesale distribution and retail sales as if already sold and partial royalties due after reserve deduction calculated. Returns are debited from royalty eligibility on later statements. If or once an advance earns-out, as-earned royalty payouts accrue.

Regarding advances, this Sanderson lecture may be helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjDdu_U ... C&index=41

Thanks, Jon. Orbivillein, that one went a bit over my head--a lot of information there that I'll study out to understand. Thank you for the thorough response.