Almost Success - The "Mixed Feelings" Thread

Posted by: @disgruntledpeony

@doctorjest I totally get where you're coming from on this... I've done this dance myself, more than once. Having a critique group can help with this sometimes, because it gives an opportunity to get second opinions before it goes out to magazines, but in the end our own voice is the most important one to listen to--even more important than the editors that tell us how close we got, because one person's "not enough immersion in the POV" is another person's "the protagonist thinks too much". I hope this next round of edits goes well--my fingers are crossed for you.  

That struggle is REAL!!! I will always be incredibly grateful about my experience with learning to trust my own voice and vision for a story and being more careful with critique advice and trying to adopt it only where it aligns with my needs for the story. But I'm not sure how well that 'trust myself' stance would stand up against professional editors at serious publications giving feedback :). 

@doctorjest hope you find the edits that make it YOUR best version of it and it finds a home!

Posted by: @rschibler

@babooher I can’t speak for every market, but at Apex, first readers are reading the newly submitted stories (for example, queue #750-200) and marking them for the editors. The editor goes through and rejects all the stories that slush readers have passed on, and sends a hold email to those recommended to be read by the editors. The lower queue numbers (200-0) are those in the queue for the editors to read. I would guess—though I cannot guarantee—that this is what happened for your story. 

That is a very helpful insight into the workings at Apex. I have a few stories out on submission right now and I keep watching that queue number on them. I know not all markets are the same at all but between watching the queue numbers drop and seeing the bolded lines for responses on submissions that were made after mine on Submission Grinder I admit I am letting my hope build for at least a personal rejection from two of them.

I know playing rejectomancy before the response is kind of a fools errand. But I guess I am a fool  

Posted by: @czing

Posted by: @disgruntledpeony

@doctorjest I totally get where you're coming from on this... I've done this dance myself, more than once. Having a critique group can help with this sometimes, because it gives an opportunity to get second opinions before it goes out to magazines, but in the end our own voice is the most important one to listen to--even more important than the editors that tell us how close we got, because one person's "not enough immersion in the POV" is another person's "the protagonist thinks too much". I hope this next round of edits goes well--my fingers are crossed for you.  

That struggle is REAL!!! I will always be incredibly grateful about my experience with learning to trust my own voice and vision for a story and being more careful with critique advice and trying to adopt it only where it aligns with my needs for the story. But I'm not sure how well that 'trust myself' stance would stand up against professional editors at serious publications giving feedback :). 

@doctorjest hope you find the edits that make it YOUR best version of it and it finds a home!

I'm hoping so too! I received some wonderful critique feedback, and I just finished all my major changes that resulted from them--the version I have now is very much ringing with my own voice, but with a few good lessons learned as well. And I still need to do some serious sweep-throughs--I have a very modest target of trying to trim 5% or so from the story's length, but that's not as easy as it sounds, because of how much I already cut away.

This last week has been the most productive one I've had since moving home in late July, so it's also nice to feel like I'm back in the saddle in time to try and get the story ready. And come what may, I think I'll be happy with the story I'm submitting, which is always a nice feeling.

Aaarrrgh! Sooo close! Guys, this is honestly the BEST personal rejection I have ever received. Won't say who it's from, but it's a pro flash fiction publisher. Here's the email I received, edited for anonymity:

Dear Morgan,

Thank you for considering [XX Publisher] for your story, "The Story I Submitted." Unfortunately we have decided not to accept it. As much as we wish we could, we can't publish every good story that comes our way. Truthfully, we're forced to return a great many stories with merits that make them well worthy of publication, including yours.

Your story did, however, reach the final stage of our selection process—one among an elite group. Less than 5% of stories make it this far. That is no small feat. In winnowing, stories are discussed and vetted before I make my final selections. If you are interested in receiving feedback based on those discussions, you are welcome to email me at [publisher email address]. Please use the following subject line: FEEDBACK REQUEST: [Story Title].

We wish you the best of luck finding a home for your story elsewhere, feel confident of your success in doing so, and hope to receive submissions from you in the future. May the muse be ever by your side.

Sincerely,

[Publisher Name]
Editor-in-Chief
[XX Publisher]

Naturally, I emailed the request. They sent me discussion feedback from thirteen individuals who had read the story, giving me some great notes to use in my revisions. I'd say this feels almost as good as an acceptance, except I have no acceptances yet to compare it to! LOL

As Inspector Gadget would say, "Missed it by that much."

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

Aaarrrgh! Sooo close! Guys, this is honestly the BEST personal rejection I have ever received. Won't say who it's from, but it's a pro flash fiction publisher. Here's the email I received, edited for anonymity:

Dear Morgan,

Thank you for considering [XX Publisher] for your story, "The Story I Submitted." Unfortunately we have decided not to accept it. As much as we wish we could, we can't publish every good story that comes our way. Truthfully, we're forced to return a great many stories with merits that make them well worthy of publication, including yours.

Your story did, however, reach the final stage of our selection process—one among an elite group. Less than 5% of stories make it this far. That is no small feat. In winnowing, stories are discussed and vetted before I make my final selections. If you are interested in receiving feedback based on those discussions, you are welcome to email me at [publisher email address]. Please use the following subject line: FEEDBACK REQUEST: [Story Title].

We wish you the best of luck finding a home for your story elsewhere, feel confident of your success in doing so, and hope to receive submissions from you in the future. May the muse be ever by your side.

Sincerely,

[Publisher Name]
Editor-in-Chief
[XX Publisher]

 

Naturally, I emailed the request. They sent me discussion feedback from thirteen individuals who had read the story, giving me some great notes to use in my revisions. I'd say this feels almost as good as an acceptance, except I have no acceptances yet to compare it to! LOL

As Inspector Gadget would say, "Missed it by that much."

Its really nice to get feedback. 

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

Aaarrrgh! Sooo close! Guys, this is honestly the BEST personal rejection I have ever received. Won't say who it's from, but it's a pro flash fiction publisher. Here's the email I received, edited for anonymity:

Dear Morgan,

Thank you for considering [XX Publisher] for your story, "The Story I Submitted." Unfortunately we have decided not to accept it. As much as we wish we could, we can't publish every good story that comes our way. Truthfully, we're forced to return a great many stories with merits that make them well worthy of publication, including yours.

Your story did, however, reach the final stage of our selection process—one among an elite group. Less than 5% of stories make it this far. That is no small feat. In winnowing, stories are discussed and vetted before I make my final selections. If you are interested in receiving feedback based on those discussions, you are welcome to email me at [publisher email address]. Please use the following subject line: FEEDBACK REQUEST: [Story Title].

We wish you the best of luck finding a home for your story elsewhere, feel confident of your success in doing so, and hope to receive submissions from you in the future. May the muse be ever by your side.

Sincerely,

[Publisher Name]
Editor-in-Chief
[XX Publisher]

 

Naturally, I emailed the request. They sent me discussion feedback from thirteen individuals who had read the story, giving me some great notes to use in my revisions. I'd say this feels almost as good as an acceptance, except I have no acceptances yet to compare it to! LOL

As Inspector Gadget would say, "Missed it by that much."

That’s fantastic! I got the same first paragraph rejection from what I assume is the same place, but the last bit offering the feedback is awesome! Good luck with your flash at the next place you send it. 

Yesterday, I got yet another form rejection from Apex. I was at position 208 this time. I feel like I'm moving closer to be in the 200 😆 . Another story promptly submitted.

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

Aaarrrgh! Sooo close! Guys, this is honestly the BEST personal rejection I have ever received. Won't say who it's from, but it's a pro flash fiction publisher. Here's the email I received, edited for anonymity:

Dear Morgan,

Thank you for considering [XX Publisher] for your story, "The Story I Submitted." Unfortunately we have decided not to accept it. As much as we wish we could, we can't publish every good story that comes our way. Truthfully, we're forced to return a great many stories with merits that make them well worthy of publication, including yours.

Your story did, however, reach the final stage of our selection process—one among an elite group. Less than 5% of stories make it this far. That is no small feat. In winnowing, stories are discussed and vetted before I make my final selections. If you are interested in receiving feedback based on those discussions, you are welcome to email me at [publisher email address]. Please use the following subject line: FEEDBACK REQUEST: [Story Title].

We wish you the best of luck finding a home for your story elsewhere, feel confident of your success in doing so, and hope to receive submissions from you in the future. May the muse be ever by your side.

Sincerely,

[Publisher Name]
Editor-in-Chief
[XX Publisher]

 

Naturally, I emailed the request. They sent me discussion feedback from thirteen individuals who had read the story, giving me some great notes to use in my revisions. I'd say this feels almost as good as an acceptance, except I have no acceptances yet to compare it to! LOL

As Inspector Gadget would say, "Missed it by that much."

That's great news, Morgan! Do keep in mind that you can't please everybody, so it's best to only take suggestions like that if they ring true to you--but, if they do ring true, they can be incredibly helpful. Glad you got such an awesome personal!

Posted by: @pdblake

Posted by: @alexvss

Posted by: @pdblake

Two personal rejections in a row from Beneath Ceaseless Skies. Still rejections but with less of a sting.

BCS always sends personal rejections, unless you wrote something too different from what you're looking for (e.g. a science-fiction story).

 

Charlie Finlay rejected me 13 times back when he was F&SF's editor, two of those rejections were high-tier, meaning that he read the stories all the way to the end. 🙃 

 

 

I've sent them six stories so far and two of the six rejections came from Scott Andrews, their editor, and going on the comments they got read to the end.  The rest were from an editorial assistant, which I took to be a first reader, though also with comments that indicated they were read all the way through. 

Its nice to know they were read to be honest, and where they think I went wrong. Form rejections often leave me wondering.

Scott Andrews reads the opening of every submission then passes it to one of the BCS slush readers or to himself to read the rest. That sounds quite unusual as far as I'm aware. I got feedback from Scott once, but it was likely because my story was so short (only 300 words), so there wasn't much of an opening to read.

I love that BCS give feedback on every submission but appreciate that's not feasible for all markets.

@morgan - that is an awesome rejection.

@pdblake - way to go on those personals.

@alexvss - good luck on moving down that queue.  I've been obsessively watching my queue position on one of my stories (not at apex) which has now gotten fairly low - but twice now it has gone back up. Not sure what to think about that. Maybe got moved to a different slush reader's pile. Trying not to read too much into it, but hoping at least to get a personal if it is a rejection.

@czing I've never heard, nor experienced, stories going back in the queue! I wonder why that happens 🤔 Maybe they're soliciting. I dunno. 

I've been stuck at position 3 in Costelación Magazine's queue for months once, and people were reporting getting rejected in The Grinder so that got my hopes up. Only to receive a normal form rejection a little afterwards 😬 

I learned that checking your position is mostly harmful. People getting rejected before you is not an indication that you'll be accepted at all.

Oh I agree it is very silly of me to watch the queue position since I definitely don't know enough about how their reading process works to be able to interpret anything from it. I do find I am more prone to watching carefully with some stories. Just like some people have favourite children I have a few stories that are favourites and this one in particular is one of those.

But for today I am off, virtually, to a writing marathon with my writing group so I will close the tab with my queue position and really try to get a new story mostly written today.

Aaaargh ... and yet YAY! I got my first personal reject today.

"Though several of our staff members enjoyed the story, it did not receive enough votes to make it to the third and final round of voting. We wish you the best of luck finding a home for it and hope you will consider us for future submissions."

Sending this puppy back out!

Posted by: @lost_bard

Aaaargh ... and yet YAY! I got my first personal reject today.

"Though several of our staff members enjoyed the story, it did not receive enough votes to make it to the third and final round of voting. We wish you the best of luck finding a home for it and hope you will consider us for future submissions."

Sending this puppy back out!

That’s a level up moment, David! May it find a home at a respectable publication!

@wulfmoon 
Thanks! I had it in another publication’s inbox the same day. Now the waiting resumes.

Posted by: @lost_bard

Aaaargh ... and yet YAY! I got my first personal reject today.

"Though several of our staff members enjoyed the story, it did not receive enough votes to make it to the third and final round of voting. We wish you the best of luck finding a home for it and hope you will consider us for future submissions."

Sending this puppy back out!

That's agonisingly close but definitely a strong step forward! It sounds like your story will find its home soon--I'll have my fingers crossed for you and look forward to seeing a post in the "SUCCESS" page for you  

For anyone who ever submitted a story to F&SF under Charlie, I just rediscovered this little gem on his blog from back in the day. In the article, he discusses the meaning behind his three tiers of rejection: 1) Didn't Grab Me, 2) Didn't Work for Me, and 3) Didn't Win Me Over.

I was lucky enough to have six of my submissions fall into #3. Two of those came back with personal notes from Charlie. One submission fell into #1.

Charlie was one of a kind, and I do miss him. Here's the link to the article...

http://www.ccfinlay.com/blog/nectar-for-rejectomancers.html

Enjoy!

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

For anyone who ever submitted a story to F&SF under Charlie, I just rediscovered this little gem on his blog from back in the day. In the article, he discusses the meaning behind his three tiers of rejection: 1) Didn't Grab Me, 2) Didn't Work for Me, and 3) Didn't Win Me Over.

I was lucky enough to have six of my submissions fall into #3. Two of those came back with personal notes from Charlie. One submission fell into #1.

Charlie was one of a kind, and I do miss him. Here's the link to the article...

http://www.ccfinlay.com/blog/nectar-for-rejectomancers.html

Enjoy!

Oh exciting - all 5 stories I got rejections from him were the win me over template. Saw an interview with the new editor and I think she said something about it being okay to try stories previously rejected by F&SF - anyone else see that? I can't remember for sure which is why I'm wondering if anyone else knows.

@czing I didn't see the interview, but I'm sure the new editor has changed her mind on accepting previously rejected stories. Firstly because I asked her, by e-mail, and she answered. And secondly because the updated guidelines clearly state this.

That's great @czing!!

I'm gonna go back over my submissions to them and see how I fared.

Posted by: @alexvss

@czing I didn't see the interview, but I'm sure the new editor has changed her mind on accepting previously rejected stories. Firstly because I asked her, by e-mail, and she answered. And secondly because the updated guidelines clearly state this.

Thanks - I must have been on crack or something because I rewatched the interview and didn't hear her say that (although I also read the guidelines last night and didn't see it mentioned - UGH sleep deprivation is a thing). Honestly I have to be mixing it up with something else - and YES there it is now, my brain finally unearthed it - one of the big ones has guest editors and it says you can resubmit when there is a different guest editor - now I just have to remember which place that is LOL.

Posted by: @czing

Posted by: @alexvss

@czing I didn't see the interview, but I'm sure the new editor has changed her mind on accepting previously rejected stories. Firstly because I asked her, by e-mail, and she answered. And secondly because the updated guidelines clearly state this.

Thanks - I must have been on crack or something because I rewatched the interview and didn't hear her say that (although I also read the guidelines last night and didn't see it mentioned - UGH sleep deprivation is a thing). Honestly I have to be mixing it up with something else - and YES there it is now, my brain finally unearthed it - one of the big ones has guest editors and it says you can resubmit when there is a different guest editor - now I just have to remember which place that is LOL.

That would be Fireside Magazine.  

Posted by: @disgruntledpeony

That would be Fireside Magazine.

Posted by: @alexvss

@czing I didn't see the interview, but I'm sure the new editor has changed her mind on accepting previously rejected stories. Firstly because I asked her, by e-mail, and she answered. And secondly because the updated guidelines clearly state this.

You beat me to it (asking if that was it, anyway) because yeah, I just got that rejection, after being "held for consid" -on a POEM, no less)
It seemed really appealing and nice but of course I immediately pinged that piece out to someone else. I'll keep it in the back of my mind, maybe.
TOO BAD, though it's not F&SF. That one the "shiny" venues for me. 
Or is it?
@ Álex Souza: I don't see it in the guidelines. But if you got it from Ms Thomas...
 

I know I should be somewhat happy about this but coming on the heels of other rejections it's rough. From Fireside: "While we really enjoyed the story and it reached the highest level of consideration, we're sorry to tell you that we've decided not to accept it for publication at this time."

It's not exactly a standard rejection but feels like one since no personal feedback. At least it got past slush. 

Posted by: @scribblesatdusk

I know I should be somewhat happy about this but coming on the heels of other rejections it's rough. From Fireside: " While we really enjoyed the story and it reached the highest level of consideration, we're sorry to tell you that we've decided not to accept it for publication at this time."

It's not exactly a standard rejection but feels like one since no personal feedback. At least it got past slush. 

It's funny (not "ha ha" funny, but, you know, funny) how we grow and progress and become accustomed to certain responses and feedback. I can remember my first several handfuls of straight up form rejections. And then that first time I got a personal rejection. I was ecstatic! "Huzzah I'm getting better! They actually noticed me and didn't hate the story! Woot! Won't be long now!"

And then you start getting more and more personal rejections and those "reached the highest level of consideration" notes, and we're like, Uh huh. Yeah. Big freaking deal. Where's my acceptance?

What was once so cool and exciting starts feeling drab and boring, and we wonder if we're getting better at all. And let's be clear, when I say "we" here, I really mean "me." So yeah, I hear you, and I feel you. I feel like the baby in Back to the Future, when Marty bends down in front of the crib and says, "Better get used to these bars, kid."

And I laugh only because I don't want to cry. But whaddya gonna do?  

Posted by: @scribblesatdusk

I know I should be somewhat happy about this but coming on the heels of other rejections it's rough. From Fireside: "While we really enjoyed the story and it reached the highest level of consideration, we're sorry to tell you that we've decided not to accept it for publication at this time."

It's not exactly a standard rejection but feels like one since no personal feedback. At least it got past slush. 

That's technically a form, yes--but it's definitely a high tier form, which I'd regard as equivalent to a personal. A fair number of magazines--Podcastle comes to mind, as a random example--send tiered forms like that. I know you wanted the sale, but trust me: If you reached the highest level of consideration, you still did very well! (Looks to me like something more or less equivalent to an SF or F if we were speaking in WotF terms.)   

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

Posted by: @scribblesatdusk

I know I should be somewhat happy about this but coming on the heels of other rejections it's rough. From Fireside: " While we really enjoyed the story and it reached the highest level of consideration, we're sorry to tell you that we've decided not to accept it for publication at this time."

It's not exactly a standard rejection but feels like one since no personal feedback. At least it got past slush. 

It's funny (not "ha ha" funny, but, you know, funny) how we grow and progress and become accustomed to certain responses and feedback. I can remember my first several handfuls of straight up form rejections. And then that first time I got a personal rejection. I was ecstatic! "Huzzah I'm getting better! They actually noticed me and didn't hate the story! Woot! Won't be long now!"

And then you start getting more and more personal rejections and those "reached the highest level of consideration" notes, and we're like, Uh huh. Yeah. Big freaking deal. Where's my acceptance?

What was once so cool and exciting starts feeling drab and boring, and we wonder if we're getting better at all. And let's be clear, when I say "we" here, I really mean "me." So yeah, I hear you, and I feel you. I feel like the baby in Back to the Future, when Marty bends down in front of the crib and says, "Better get used to these bars, kid."

 

And I laugh only because I don't want to cry. But whaddya gonna do?  

I think that's a fairly common thing for writers (and humans as a whole) as time goes on. We adapt and grow used to what we consider to be 'normal'.

Posted by: @disgruntledpeony

That's technically a form, yes--but it's definitely a high tier form, which I'd regard as equivalent to a personal. A fair number of magazines--Podcastle comes to mind, as a random example--send tiered forms like that. I know you wanted the sale, but trust me: If you reached the highest level of consideration, you still did very well! (Looks to me like something more or less equivalent to an SF or F if we were speaking in WotF terms.)

Hearing it compared like that really made me smile and feel better. Thank you!

It's funny (not "ha ha" funny, but, you know, funny) how we grow and progress and become accustomed to certain responses and feedback. I can remember my first several handfuls of straight up form rejections. And then that first time I got a personal rejection. I was ecstatic! "Huzzah I'm getting better! They actually noticed me and didn't hate the story! Woot! Won't be long now!"

And then you start getting more and more personal rejections and those "reached the highest level of consideration" notes, and we're like, Uh huh. Yeah. Big freaking deal. Where's my acceptance?

What was once so cool and exciting starts feeling drab and boring, and we wonder if we're getting better at all. And let's be clear, when I say "we" here, I really mean "me." So yeah, I hear you, and I feel you. I feel like the baby in Back to the Future, when Marty bends down in front of the crib and says, "Better get used to these bars, kid."

 

And I laugh only because I don't want to cry. But whaddya gonna do?  

Ah! To lament we humans have not yet evolved unassisted flight (or some other cool mutation) or to praise our opposable thumbs?

Has anyone ever published a story with Clarkesworld? I keep submitting there, and it's usually a flat form rejection within a single day or two.
I appreciate the rapid response times, but I'm like, "Did you even honestly READ my story?!?"