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Cray Dimensional
(@craydimensional)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 154

@toddric Thank you. Your suggestion of letting your self make mistakes is perfectly timed. I was getting so caught up in things to correct, that my 4QTR first draft wasn’t flowing. Still searching for the right balance.

Small steps add up to miles.
V38: R, R, P

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:25 pm
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monjoh
(@monjoh)
Active Member
Posts: 7

@toddric Thanks, Todd.

(also the 101 Sci Fi tropes were a fun read!)

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:26 pm
NVHaskell
(@nvhaskell)
Bronze Member
Posts: 50

Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply to my questions. I already bookmarked the link for future use.

What is the best writing advice you ever received? And, how has your perception of that advice changed over your career?

 

 

‘If you write one story, it may be bad; if you write a hundred, you have the odds in your favor.’ ~ Edgar Rice Burroughs
'The War Within' Deep Magic Volume 73 https://deepmagic.co
'A Straw in the Wind' in A Hero's Journey Anthology coming in 2022
V37- R, HM, SHM, HM
V38- HM, SHM, P

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:28 pm
monjoh
(@monjoh)
Active Member
Posts: 7

At the last Q&A, David Farland said the key to winning the WOTF contest was to make the judges cry. Have any of the stories you judged made you cry?

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:33 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @wulfmoon

Welcome, Todd! I enjoyed meeting you at the WotF Vol. 35 workshop! I have DRAGONSBLOOD in hardcover, and others by you and your mother as well. But my first question is about the forward in that book. Your mother wrote it, and while she was very happy with your writing, she mentioned she wrangled with you over a few items. I'm wondering what it was like when you started writing in her established world. There's the obvious expectations from a powerful fanbase, and then there's the publisher's expectations, and then there's your mother looking over your shoulder. What was that moment like? And did you have room to share your own ideas while still showing respect for her world? Thanks!

Hi Wulfmoon!

It was a pleasure meeting you, too.  And I'm so glad that you're being active in helping others make the leap into writing!

When Mum and I started writing together (with Dragon's Kin), the rules were very simple:

1. Let the Bestselling New York Times Author win.

2. Never argue with your mother.

We got along great.  But Mum decided that when watch-whers bind with humans, they must bite the human.  I was aghast.  Why? I accepted it, shaking my head at the time.  It wasn't until much later that I realized why that worked and put in the explanation. Mum's instincts were amazing.

Dragonsblood was all my idea.  Mum, being herself, always left questions to be answered in her books. With Dragonquest, we discovered the Ancient Rooms.  But we never knew why the Ancient Rooms were in Benden Weyr (the second Weyr) instead of Fort Weyr (the first).  And we didn't know why the fire-lizards weren't present in the Ninth Pass.  So I answered that.

Mum didn't look over my shoulder because, as she said, "I trust you implicitly."

In fact, the whole Third Pass series (eight books, at the moment) was mostly me picking a point in the Pern timeline in which I could play without upsetting Mum.  She was (naturally) very protective of her characters (Lessa, F'lar, et cetera), so writing in a different time let me work around that.  By the time the eighth book (Sky Dragons) came out, Mum decided that I would do just fine.  Sadly, that was our last book together.

We had a blast working together! But when I started, it was after Mum had had a heart attack (Fall 2000) and a stroke (Spring 2001), so we knew we were on "golden time." And we cherished it!

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:35 pm
storysinger, NVHaskell, Wulf Moon and 2 people liked
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @monjoh

@toddric Thanks, Todd.

(also the 101 Sci Fi tropes were a fun read!)

Yeah, they were, weren't they?

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:36 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @nvhaskell

Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply to my questions. I already bookmarked the link for future use.

What is the best writing advice you ever received? And, how has your perception of that advice changed over your career?

 

 

Gosh, I don't quite know.  I think "finish it!" was probably the best advice I'd received. Also, my rule: "Allow yourself to be bad."  That's a paraphrasing of the late Blake Snyder's advice in (I think) his third Save the Cat! book (they're all worth reading).

I nowadays take that advice even *more* to heart than I did when I started out. That's because I've realized how easy it is to fix something when it's written (it's kinda impossible to fix something that doesn't exist <g>).

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:38 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @craydimensional

@toddric Thank you. Your suggestion of letting your self make mistakes is perfectly timed. I was getting so caught up in things to correct, that my 4QTR first draft wasn’t flowing. Still searching for the right balance.

And you always will be! The balance changes over time but you'll still be seeking.  Remember, writing is transformation.  *You* as a writing will *always* be changing.

Just accept it, do your best, and finish it!

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:40 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @monjoh

At the last Q&A, David Farland said the key to winning the WOTF contest was to make the judges cry. Have any of the stories you judged made you cry?

Not that I recall.

I tend to want to read stories that make me go, "Wow!" And, better yet, "How come I didn't think of that?"

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:41 pm
NVHaskell
(@nvhaskell)
Bronze Member
Posts: 50

@toddric Thank you! This is probably the advice I most need right now. 

‘If you write one story, it may be bad; if you write a hundred, you have the odds in your favor.’ ~ Edgar Rice Burroughs
'The War Within' Deep Magic Volume 73 https://deepmagic.co
'A Straw in the Wind' in A Hero's Journey Anthology coming in 2022
V37- R, HM, SHM, HM
V38- HM, SHM, P

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:42 pm
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2277

Thanks, Todd! Sounds like you and your mother had a wonderful relationship! 

And I loved this answer:

When Mum and I started writing together (with Dragon's Kin), the rules were very simple:

1. Let the Bestselling New York Times Author win.

2. Never argue with your mother.

Cute! 

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:43 pm
Cray Dimensional
(@craydimensional)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 154

Todd thank you for your words of advice.

I was wondering what your thoughts are on self publishing versus going through a publisher?

Can someone who self published as novice still make it in publish world?

Small steps add up to miles.
V38: R, R, P

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:46 pm
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Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @scott_m_sands

I'm really excited for this, Todd!

Can't wait to hear what you have to say on your experiences and the contest.

fistinair fistinair  

Hi Scott,

I must admit that I have the whole "son of famous" thing to deal with which can be challenging at times.

I remember spending my early teen years begging my poor mother to read stuff I'd written and she kept putting me off, telling me that she was a terrible reviewer.  But my whining (remember: teen) finally overwhelmed her and she took my story...

It can back with so much red ink that it was bleeding.  Really, it was just *red*.  (Again, remember: teen.)

I never asked her for a review after that!

On the other hand, I recall Mum calling me up and crying because she'd finally written Moreta's death scene.  If you're writing strong emotions, you want to be feeling them that intensely.

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:47 pm
Wulf Moon, Cray Dimensional, NVHaskell and 1 people liked
Physa/ Guthington/ Amy
(@physa)
Advanced Member
Posts: 41

@toddric Thanks Todd. Just like many here, I absolutely LOVE the world of Pern. It starts out as a fantasy type world, but the explanations about the thread and morning star and early colonists came organically. Not forced at all. The first Pern book I read was Dragonsinger. I appreciate your answer regarding worldbuilding for short stories. 

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Posted : June 26, 2021 1:53 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @craydimensional

Todd thank you for your words of advice.

I was wondering what your thoughts are on self publishing versus going through a publisher?

Can someone who self published as novice still make it in publish world?

Whew! That's an intriguing question.

Yes, people can (and do) still "make it" with a regular publisher. Traditional publishers have a lot of advantages:

1. Professional editors

2. Professional marketers

3. Professional artists

4. Professional distribution networks

 ... and more.

 

BUT... you have less control and less direct income.  KDP, for example, will give you up to 70% of your eBook list price.  A publisher might only give you 25% of the eBook price (and less for paperback). On the other hand, the traditional publisher is a gatekeeper for quality. People feel that they can trust that traditional publishers will select more marketable works.

Self-publishing can work very well. There's a whole group of independent authors ("indies") who are making *really* good money and they're willing to pass along their support and advice (check out 20BooksTo50k on Facebook).

The keyword to remember is: self-publishing.  All those things a publisher would do for you, you have to do for yourself.  Your learning curve will be steeper if only because you have a *lot* more to learn.

With all that said, I am what they call a "hybrid" author.  I have several traditionally published books and I have several "indie" books. A lot of people think this is the best of both worlds.

I *do* like being able to update my covers (and interiors) when I feel like it. I'm *trying* to learn advertising and marketing and, most of all, I'm having fun!

So, yeah, you can make it as an "indie." You've just got to be willing to do all the extra work (and, of course, make all that extra money <grin>).

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:55 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @physa

@toddric Thanks Todd. Just like many here, I absolutely LOVE the world of Pern. It starts out as a fantasy type world, but the explanations about the thread and morning star and early colonists came organically. Not forced at all. The first Pern book I read was Dragonsinger. I appreciate your answer regarding worldbuilding for short stories. 

You're welcome!

Pern is a marvelous world, I'm glad you love it.

That's one thing that people don't consider: the immortality of a good story (or book).

Whenever I want, I can go back and "hear" Mum's voice in her books. That makes her immortal.

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 1:58 pm
storysinger, NVHaskell, Wulf Moon and 1 people liked
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 743

Thanks for being here! Other than Pern, what is your favorite book/author/story?

 

And one more, you said you might not prefer stories that "try too hard to be different". Can you elaborate on that a bit? 

V34: R,HM,R
V35: HM,R,R,HM
V36: R,HM,HM,SHM
V37: HM,SF,SHM,SHM
V38: F, SHM, P, P
Available for critiques - PM for availability.
www.rebeccaetreasure.com

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:00 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @wulfmoon

Thanks, Todd! Sounds like you and your mother had a wonderful relationship! 

And I loved this answer:

When Mum and I started writing together (with Dragon's Kin), the rules were very simple:

1. Let the Bestselling New York Times Author win.

2. Never argue with your mother.

Cute! 

My pleasure!

My most amazing memory of Mum was in regards to Pern when she said, "I trust you implicitly!"

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 2:00 pm
Wulf Moon
(@wulfmoon)
Platinum Plus Member Moderator
Posts: 2277

Next question. I have many friends self-publishing their novels. They have lovely covers, good prose, and are instantly published, available for the public to read. However, I do not see many of them having significant sales, unless they have been at it for a very long time. Traditional publishing has many advantages, such as getting your novels into national bookstores, understanding covers that sell to the right base, and if you're fortunate, some marketing strategy as well. The downside is many large publishers will not read your manuscript without coming in through an agent, so you may take years finding an agent, years finding a publisher that's interested, and then years until the novel is published. Given these alternatives, what avenue do you recommend to getting successfully published, which for me is defined as having my novels reach as many readers as possible?

JOIN THE WULF PACK! http://the super secrets.com
"Super-Duper Moongirl and the Amazing Moon Dawdler" wins WRITERS OF THE FUTURE VOL. 35 & BEST SF&F STORY OF 2019. Order WotF Volume 35 HERE!
“Muzik Man" in Deep Magic Fall 2020 wins BEST SF&F STORY of 2020
NEW! Don't miss the Super Secret "Character Agency: I Need a Hero!" in DreamForge Anvil Magazine!
JUST RELEASED! BEST OF DEEP MAGIC ANTHOLOGY TWO! Three Super Secrets Workshop members made it into this best of the best anthology! KD Julicher, Brittany Rainsdon, and some guy named Wulf Moon. Click HERE to get yours!
NEXT MASTER CLASSES AT FYRECON ONLINE, NOV. 18-21ST. Click HERE before they are sold out once again!

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:00 pm
EmilyGoodwin
(@emilygoodwin)
Active Member
Posts: 7

Hi Todd!

Thanks for being here.

So what is your plan with illustration? World famous author gets Honorable Mention in the Illustrators of the Future Contest....

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:01 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @rschibler

Thanks for being here! Other than Pern, what is your favorite book/author/story?

 

And one more, you said you might not prefer stories that "try too hard to be different". Can you elaborate on that a bit? 

I don't have just one favorite of anything!

I love Lois McMaster Bujold's "Vorkosigan Saga" because she creates beautiful internal landscapes for her characters, I love David Weber's "Honorverse" because he has so much fun with different political systems.

I love Patricia Briggs' Mercedes Thompson series because she creates side characters with the simplest of dialogs; I love Seanan McGuire's October Daye series and her InCryptid series for the depth and humor; I love Mike Resnick's amazing Seven Views of Oldavai Gorge because it is a stellar piece of work.

The list goes on... (Zelazny, Heinlein, Gerrold, Niven, Butler, LeGuin, Anderson, Norton...)

"try too hard to be different"... stories where the writer is chuckling to him/herself because of how much they're "messing with the reader's minds", stories where the writer is creating minutiae about how doors work (and not paying it off later), stories where names are impossible to even try to pronounce because that way we know that they're aliens... stuff like that.

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 2:06 pm
NVHaskell, Wulf Moon, John Goodwin and 1 people liked
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 743

@toddric Thanks so much! I love many of the same authors, but I'll have to check out some of those, too. Appreciated.

V34: R,HM,R
V35: HM,R,R,HM
V36: R,HM,HM,SHM
V37: HM,SF,SHM,SHM
V38: F, SHM, P, P
Available for critiques - PM for availability.
www.rebeccaetreasure.com

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:07 pm
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
Silver Star Member
Posts: 743

Alright, maybe one more question. When you're judging stories for WotF, what are some of the things you consider? All 8 finalist stories are good stories, so what kinds of things help you narrow it down?

V34: R,HM,R
V35: HM,R,R,HM
V36: R,HM,HM,SHM
V37: HM,SF,SHM,SHM
V38: F, SHM, P, P
Available for critiques - PM for availability.
www.rebeccaetreasure.com

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:12 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @wulfmoon

Next question. I have many friends self-publishing their novels. They have lovely covers, good prose, and are instantly published, available for the public to read. However, I do not see many of them having significant sales, unless they have been at it for a very long time. Traditional publishing has many advantages, such as getting your novels into national bookstores, understanding covers that sell to the right base, and if you're fortunate, some marketing strategy as well. The downside is many large publishers will not read your manuscript without coming in through an agent, so you may take years finding an agent, years finding a publisher that's interested, and then years until the novel is published. Given these alternatives, what avenue do you recommend to getting successfully published, which for me is defined as having my novels reach as many readers as possible?

You might want to check out KDP Rocket, which lets you see categories and sales. It's from Dave Chesson.  He also has a lot of resources on his website, including one that lets you see how many books are sold on the basis of ABSR (Amazon Bestseller Rank).

In the 20BooksTo50k group on Facebook, I'm seeing a number of authors making anywhere between $100,000 - $500,000 (and more). I like those numbers.

I'm not convinced that bookstores are as powerful a mechanism as they once were.  I *think* Las Vegas may have *one* Barnes&Noble (for a population of 300,000). Borders is gone. B&N is replicating many of the losing strategies that Borders adopted to run themselves out of business (including my favorite: hiring people who don't read).

I'm seeing that sales are split 50-50 between books and ebooks.

I do agree that going "indie" requires a huge amount of learning.  But... writing science fiction or fantasy usually is not for the faint of heart when it comes to research.

An interesting tidbit i picked up when thinking about this very topic is this: A Game of Thrones by George R. (R.) Martin was first published in 1996. It didn't become a NYT Bestseller until 2011 - 15 years!

I think that being a writer requires you to think long term.  Five years is probably the minimum, 15 is probably more reasonable.

In traditional publishing, your turn around from submission to bookshelf is generally measured in years. I think the best I saw was 18 months for a Pern novel. I  can publish -- both ebook *and* paperback -- in roughly a week from the moment I decide that I've got a finished manuscript.

If you *only* want to reach as many readers as possible (and *not* get paid), you could probably go a fair ways toward that goal by publishing ebooks online and giving them away for free. I've seen people hit the Amazon #1 Free Book rank that way.

For myself, that doesn't work.  It's a truism that most free books aren't read.  People just load up their eReaders and let them sit.

The independent path is just getting better and better each year. You can go with Draft2Digital which will take your manuscript and distribute it to multiple platforms (Apple, Kobo, KDP, etc.)... but they take a 10% royalty (not so bad when you think about it).

Or you could try the "hybrid" approach - publish somethings yourself and get a traditional publisher for others.

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 2:20 pm
Cray Dimensional
(@craydimensional)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 154

Todd,

Thank you for coming today.

The redlines from your mom as a teenager reminded me of my mom taking over the computer and rewriting what I wrote. I think I would have preferred red lines.

But my question doesn’t relate to that.

I am curious do you have a preferred POV when judging?

Small steps add up to miles.
V38: R, R, P

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:20 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @rschibler

Alright, maybe one more question. When you're judging stories for WotF, what are some of the things you consider? All 8 finalist stories are good stories, so what kinds of things help you narrow it down?

Whew!

I like original stories told well.  Or stories where people hit an old subject *better*. Consider Stanley G. Weinbaum's very dated but still amazing, A Martian Odyssey from 1934. He wrote what I *still* consider to be the most alien alien I've ever read.

Can you write a better alien? One that "works" but still fits in the story?

When it comes to finalists, they're all good.  I'm looking for that spark that makes me go, "Wow!"  That'll be the story that hits the top of the list.  And a lot of times it's a question of picking the "wowest" "wow!" out of eight!

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 2:23 pm
storysinger, Wulf Moon, RETreasure and 1 people liked
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @emilygoodwin

Hi Todd!

Thanks for being here.

So what is your plan with illustration? World famous author gets Honorable Mention in the Illustrators of the Future Contest....

Ahhh!  Well, world conquest has always been on my short list of accomplishments <grin>!

I'm hoping very much to become a Finalist in the Illustrators of the Future (I've already submitted for the next quarter).

I, personally, tend to think in wraparound (e.g.: paperback) covers. I want to be able to master this skill. (I have an MFA in Fine Art, I figure I should use it <grin>).

I read a very interesting (and infuriating) book for my philosophy class at Claremont Graduate University called "Chromophobia." The author is gently debunking the notion of semiotics in a way that made it clear that there some thing words cannot describe or convey.  Art does that. It was an epiphany which I'm still processing.

I have acquired many of the marvelous Domestika courses and have learned a whole bunch more about Photoshop than I had imagined possible.

And, of course, my good friend Jeff Weiner *is* an Illustrator of the Future winner, himself! So I'm motivated!

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 2:28 pm
Wulf Moon, NVHaskell, John Goodwin and 1 people liked
Scott_M_Sands
(@scott_m_sands)
Bronze Star Member
Posts: 162

Todd,

I was listening to the WotF podcast with Brianna Winner (she speaks very highly of you!) Would you be able to share how your work collaborating on the Twin Soul series differed from collaborating with your mother? (if at all)

Also, do you use personification in your own writing and would you say it's appropriate for this contest?

Thank you.  grinning  

"Many people will tell you that you can't write. Let no one say that you don't." -Ken Rand
V36-37: R x6
V38: R, HM, P

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:30 pm
Todd McCaffrey
(@toddric)
Advanced Member
Posts: 33
Posted by: @craydimensional

Todd,

Thank you for coming today.

The redlines from your mom as a teenager reminded me of my mom taking over the computer and rewriting what I wrote. I think I would have preferred red lines.

As a parent, I've discovered just how hard it is to parent.

But my question doesn’t relate to that.

I am curious do you have a preferred POV when judging?

Nope, just make it work.

If you use POV changes, don't lose the reader. In a short story, POV changes are challenging, to say the least.

First person allows you to get inside a person more but it means that you've got an unreliable narrator and you have to figure out how to convey outside information in a timely, believable manner.

Third person omniscient has a lot of proponents but I'm not convinced it's necessary.

Challenge yourself!

 

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2021 2:32 pm
John Goodwin
(@johngoodwin)
Active Member Moderator
Posts: 24
Posted by: @toddric
Posted by: @emilygoodwin

Hi Todd!

Thanks for being here.

So what is your plan with illustration? World famous author gets Honorable Mention in the Illustrators of the Future Contest....

Ahhh!  Well, world conquest has always been on my short list of accomplishments <grin>!

I'm hoping very much to become a Finalist in the Illustrators of the Future (I've already submitted for the next quarter).

I, personally, tend to think in wraparound (e.g.: paperback) covers. I want to be able to master this skill. (I have an MFA in Fine Art, I figure I should use it <grin>).

I read a very interesting (and infuriating) book for my philosophy class at Claremont Graduate University called "Chromophobia." The author is gently debunking the notion of semiotics in a way that made it clear that there some thing words cannot describe or convey.  Art does that. It was an epiphany which I'm still processing.

I have acquired many of the marvelous Domestika courses and have learned a whole bunch more about Photoshop than I had imagined possible.

And, of course, my good friend Jeff Weiner *is* an Illustrator of the Future winner, himself! So I'm motivated!

That's interesting about your "Chromophobia" statement and quite possibly explains why illustration was such an essential part of the pulp fiction era and why it works so well with the Writers of the Future anthologies. The illustrations add an extra dimension that words alone don't provide.

 

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Posted : June 26, 2021 2:34 pm
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